to find the use of the word 'fenian' by a working member of the military offensive

[tarantula]

Was very tired, stressed today and have PMT so might be over reacting.

The military were in our building today for security reasons. Overheard the following in my office and not sure whether to report it. I was not paying attention at the beginning as was working.

First soldier : 'blah blah blah fenians' (I only picked up on that word)
Second soldier : 'Do you know what fenian means? '

At that point I stood up glared at both soldiers and left the room as felt rather upset. The first soldier was def talking in a derogatory tone. Not sure what explanation the second soldier was going to give, could have been a dressing down about how offensive the word was, I didn't wait to hear.

Wondering whether to say anything to the powers that be at work about this as it made me feel very uncomfortable.

Depends where you are.

If you're in Ireland (or N Ireland) or Scotland, that term is highly offensive.

In NZ, it doesn't have any derogatory connotations.

In London, most people just think of it as being an historical term.

If you're in NI or Scotland, then that guy in uniform should most certainly not be using it - he's been specifically told by higher ranks, not to. It's bloody unprofessional.

Hard Cheese It was in England.

Irish, lapsed Catholic here and if I heard it used by a British soldier would think it derogatory.

Given that you didnt actually hear what the conclusion of the conversation was, what exactly are you going to complain about?

yeah same here chipmonkey Was actually a bit surprised at how offended and insulted I felt by this hence the thread.
I'm from the South and first heard 'fenian' as an insult when I moved to England.

I agree that it is an offensive word, which is why I only use it when I am talking about terrorists and not people who happen to be Catholic or Irish.

I would imagine she is going to complain about the use of the word.

Things will never change unless we stand up and challenge them. And in case its escaped any of you, people are still dying over this shit, in the UK, today.

Irish, and would find it derogatory used by the British armed forces. Isn't it similar to Taig as an insulting term for Irish people, regardless of their religious persuation?

Yes, context is all.

And we don't have the full context here.

As another poster pointed out, for all we know the first soldier may have been quoting something said to him by another, and it may have been relevant to the situation they were dealing with. Or he might have been careless, or he might have been deliberately offensive, or he might have not realised the full potential import of the term (this thread shows differences of opinion on the term). The second soldier sounds to me as if he were starting to tell off the other, but there could be other explanations.

We simply do not know. And certainly cannot extrapolate anything from thus about military standards or norms.

Thought it meant old style ira myself, that not the case?

Thought it meant old style ira myself, that not the case?

It absolutely depends on the tone / context the word is used.

As already pointed out, here in Scotland, you can be arrested for calling someone a fenian b***d (quite rightly IMO).

On the other hand, when I was very young (a long long time ago) I remember my Irish GM telling me to never forget I was a fenian.

Same word, but with totally different connitations. I would be surprised if the soldier in question didn't know the history of the word fenian. However, if the 2nd soldier was 'pulling him up' then probably best to forget about it, and if you hear a racist comment again, listen to the whole conversation (no matter how upsetting it can be) and then take appropriate action - once you have all the facts.

I do not think context is all at all when it comes to inappropriate language, especially used by people in uniform.

Nor do I think one soldier using it tells us about military norms.

But I do think that it should be addressed.

Heres an example of someone else who thought it was okay to use that word:

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011/05/27/sectarian-killer-jason-campbell-back-on-the-streets-after-15-years-for-schoolboy-s-murder-86908-23160290/

I am protestant Northern Irish and was brought up to find that word highly offensive and inappropriate, and actually referring to republican IRA as opposed to Roman Catholics as a whole.

BJP I think you are right and it is best to chalk it up and be aware for next time.I know what you mean about diff connotations too as have them at home. I was def caught unaware today and was very surprised at how I reacted as I haven't actually heard anything like this in years. I think it was the way he said it that caught my ear more than anything, like he was spitting it out . When I first moved over I heard a lot more things like that but it has def mellowed since.

Its particularly offensive when coming from a British soldier.

This thread shows that there are differences in understanding of the level of offence. As the OP didnt stay for the rest of the conversation it would be perfectly possible that soldier B was explaining to soldier A that the term is considered offensive.

The OP left so doesnt know what was done to put soldier A right.

Or is OP saying that nobody is allowed to even utter the F word?

IMO derogatory speech should be met face on. Sometimes this means that the offending word has to be used, as in 'Do you realise that saying XXXXX is incredibly offensive?'

and now my spelling and grammar is buggered. Time for bed me thinks. Thanks everyone for all your comments and thoughts. Much appreciated. Has cleared my thoughts quite a bit.