To suggest that M&S should train their staff to measure bra sizes correctly?

[quietlyafraid]

It would seem that rather a lot of women on here think M&S are rubbish at measuring bra size and that they are responsible for making many women walk around wearing the wrong size bra. Especially since they do not seem capable of stocking a full range of sizes, like other department stores. M&S always had the reputation of being the place to go for underwear, and its SCANDALOUS that they are not not leading the way in proper boobs loving support. If I search my size on their website, I am even directed to bras in the wrong size!

Being told to shove your cleveage into the wrong size has created a situation where women think they are a bigger back size than they actually are. They are responsible for making the lives of women a living hell and suffering in constant strap sliding, wire poking, saggy tits, four boob syndrome, falling out at inappropriate times or other such hardships.

I blame M&S and their terrible measuring. AIBU?! Have you been a victim of the M&S "just shove your bras into the wrong size it'll do" mafia? Have you got measured there only to find out you are a completely different size elsewhere?

Worse still an underclass of unrepresented women are being persecuted for daring to be little. The high street does not seem to recognise that 30 backs are a real size and thinks there is no demand for them. This is despite the fact that a size 8 loosely equates to a 30 inch rib cage. Most places start clothes at size 8, so why do most bras, only start at size 32? And just cos we are small back size does not mean we are all flat chested. We are real people too!

We are fed up of having to hide away and use mail order rather than shop on the high street which stocks next to nothing or is totally sold out anyway. We are fed up of being asked whether a 30 back is even a real size and we are fed up of having a choice of deeply unsexy black or white only by other stores.

And AIBU to ask you all people who got measured at M&S to go and get yourself remeasured at House of Fraser or Debenhams (Especially if you are size 8 or below to see if you are one of us and to join the 30 Back club, to increase demand so we can be better represented on the high street) and force M&S to change their policy on boob shoving and fudging?

First AIBU thread of my own. Hope it is silly and hysterical enough to do MN proud. Seriously though, is M&S bra dept rather shit or not?

OneHandFlapping WIth M&S bras you have to add 4-5 inches to your actual measurement under your bust to get your bra back size. So I measure 30 inches, but wear a 34 bra. I'm not sure why this is - it seems totally illogical to me.

I thought all bra measurements worked like that. Every catalogue or measuring instructions I have ever seen for the last 20 odd years say that.

The lady in M&S didnt use a tape. She looked at me and said 30E

I said 'how the hell am I supposed to get bras in THAT size' and almost cried. Visions of having to spend £££££ on ugly bras for ever more filling my poor head.

I went to Primark a few weeks back and asked the bra lady if she had any 30es. She looked at me like I had said 'do you mind if I poo in your fitting room?' and backed away.

I havent even got big boobs ffs so how can i possibly be a 30E!?

OhDoAdmit Why don't you measure yourself? I do and it's easy enough, you should be able to find instructions on internet/in back of a catalogue.

The add 4 or 5 inches method was changed by the industry about 3-4 yrs ago iirc. However it has been so poorly communicated both to retailers and the general public as to have been missed completely. I'm a size 16 for the most part and still only wear a 34 back. I'd hazard a guess that anyone smaller than that should be starting with 32's, and I reckon that way more than the oft quoted 75% of women are wearing the wrong size - I'd say closer to 90%!

I don't go to M&S for bra sizing.

In fact, last year, I went to look for bras, (using my own system of trying them on rather than asking), and all the bras in "my size" i tried on were the weirdest shape ever.
they were sewn in such a way that my boobs would have to stick out at a very unnatural angle sort of like a U on its side.

I am generally a 32c, but even then, the 32 is quite loose in most fits. that's annoying, too, because as I continue to wear and wash the bra, it becomes too loose and unwearable.

You can use a tape measure as long as you measure your actual back and don't start adding inches on
I am size 16 and wear a 32 back. Up thread whoever mentioned wider boobs - panache works for me, Freya don't fit

I think I did at the time whose and got really confused. I need to do it again because DC5 is 18mths old so my boobage has probably shifted again. Oh for the days of 32b and having free range to pretty, cheap bra and knicker sets from Asda.

I cant wear supermarket bras now because they have really thin straps.

I have now offically matronly bosomed

Get measured by bravissimo, buy the same make bras on the net cheaper. Simples.

OhDoAdmit - I asked for my size in John Lewis and the woman made that sucking through teeth noise

John Lewis in bluewater was incredibly unhelpful to me last time I went - I was a hormonal pregnant woman who just wanted a couple of comfortable non-wired bras that would see me through the next couple of months. that didn't have fucking seams across the nipples.

there was very little in my size - especially without seams, and when I asked the lady to get me the 32c, because I thought the 32d looked too big, she said "you're definitely a D cup) and then took away the D cup and came back with the C cup, but not the D cup!
I wanted to compare, I gave her the bra so she could find the right style, not so she could take it away from me!!

John Lewis in Nottingham has always proved to be extremely helpful.

OhDoAdmit - cos the cup measurement is a differential measurement not a set size. If you are a 38E you'd have much huger bazookas than a 30E. Its just you have a small back, but proportionately larger breasts.

Honestly, whosegotmyeyebrows is correct. Measure yourself. And 30Es do not equal ££££ and ugly bras. Just inconvenience. Mail order is fine, but it would be nice to actually try something on in a store, without having to make a special trek to Bravissimo.

Primark don't believe women have above DD cup breasts. They are evil and must be boycotted, purely for this reason ;)

Oh and:
# Some bra fitting guides and calculators will tell you to add four or five inches (10 to 12.5cm) to your underbust measurement, but this is outdated advice. The "add four" method was popularised by Warners in the 1930s when bra design was in its infancy and it simply doesn't work with modern bras.
M&S are shit and must be retrained!!!!! (a lot of the internet calculators are wrong too).

sparkle12mar08 I'm surprised that you say the industry sizing changed 4 - 5 years ago. It was at least about 2001/2 when I've was first measured as a 30E and two major manufacturers (Eveden who own R&P and Panache) were doing the size, just it was very limited. Its just the majority of the industry was doing the bra shoving method across the board... Its one of the reasons bravissimo was set up in the first place.

brighthair I agree. I had exactly same problem as idlingabout with Freya. I think its a brand thing rather than size.

What I have trouble with is the whole cup size/band measurement thing. Marks still add the 4inches or more on. My actual measurement for band size is just over 32" but I have to get at least a 38" and as I'm a very small A cup the 38A is huge. Why is the cup size changeing with the band measurement, surely that should stay the same? So therefore impossible for me to buy a bra there.

you are not a 38 lentilpie. That simple.
If you look in the mirror, is your bra back horizontal???

If your under breast measurement is 32, I'm willing to bet you are actually a 32D or close to it. Its the same cup size, but the back size is correct.

The cup size is a differential measurement. Thats what confuses the hell out of people.

A 38A, 36B, 34C and 32D all have the same cup size, if you were to take a pair of scissors to them and compare them.

you add 4 inches if you're even and 5 if you're odd.

that's why you have so many hooks on your bra - so that you can adjust it if your back is smaller or larger.
and why they say it should be on the middle one to start with.

so, my ribcage measures 27inches, so I have to add 5 inches to get the 32.
which is why most of the 32s are a bit loose.

nickelbabe, try a 30D or 28E. ;)

i think there's a bit of confusion between band size and back size.

you have to add 4 or 5 inches onto the Actual measurement in inches of your back.
wrap the tape measure around your rib cage directly underneath your boobs, and make sure it's flat around the back.
add 4 or 5 to that measurement.
that gives you the band size.
the cup size is the difference between that measurement and the measurement of your full boob (across your nipple, or the fullest part of your boob, and flat aroudn the back) - bear in mind for this, that if your boobs are droopy, it will not give you an accurate measurement for this size - that's why you have to try the bra on
A good bra will hold your boobs up and make them look like they're round and voluptuous (imagine an apple in your bra), regardless of how droopy your boobs are.
the best way to get this right is to get a bra with the correct band, and what you think is the cup size, and fasten it so that it's comfortable round your back, then lean forward so that your boobs drop into the cup.
then wiggle them about and stand.
if there's bulge anywhere, it's too tight.
if there's gapage anywhere or your boobs aren't being held then it's too big.

it can be trial and error, because of the shape and cut of the bra, and because of the shape of your boobs.

(i did a Fashion technology HND, and we covered bras, so I know what i'm talking about)
I made my own to that method, and it fit perfectly

One of the main issues I've found with the looseness is that the elastic is crap - ie not springy enough, so it has no give

nickelbabe as mentioned upthread thats an old fashioned and out of date way of measuring, that is no longer the recommended way.

oh, and I'm pg, so my rib cage has grown.
I've just measured my rib cage as 30", and the bra i'm most comfortable in at the moment is a 34 band size.

I'm sorry quietly , but your thing is wrong - they still make bras with the 4 or 5 numbers added to the actual measurement.

I used to work in a lingerie shop (not a seedy one!) and I don't remember anyone coming in and me measuring them the same size that M & S had. They always measured too big around the back and too small on the cup.

So YANBU. They are shite.

it might not be the recommended way, but that's the industry standard.

promise.

yup, M&S tried to tell me that 32b was the same size as 34a....

where did you get that quote from, quietly?
I'm interested.

I've even got an industry bra size measuring tape, and it does it the "old" way.
(it tells you your bra size, rather than your actual measurement)
and I've measured it against a real tape measure, and it's how I described it.

Someone who has been trained properly, or who has been doing it for a while can tell someone's size just by looking.

Nicklebabe, thats DEFINITELY not how rigby and peller measure. Nor any of the many brands I wear... Obviously none of them are industry standard...

www.007b.com/bra-fitting.php

Please continue to argue and then say that your 32 band is loose. It shouldn't be if you are wearing the right size!!!