AIBU to think rubber/plastic bullets are not appropriate...

[woollyideas]

...to use against student demonstrators and that they should not 'be available' for police to use at today's planned protests against higher education fee increases?

Defend, squeaky? Or counter-attack?

squeaky But it will be a small number of people, hiding within a larger crowd, throwing things at police. They can't simply shoot into a large crowd of people with potentially lethal bullets, that's grossly irresponsible.

The police have other tools for defending themselves. But as woolly points out they are likely wanting something for counter-attacks.

YANBU
Rubber bullets kill,so that would make the Police killers..oh wait,some already are.

Demonstrations should take place where they will not stop people going about their lawful, private, individual and often uninteresting occasions. Not in city centres during the working day.

"Plastic bullets on school kids!!!"

On a Wednesday afternoon in term time it's unlikely to be school-kids. Unless 'mass truant' is the idea

squeakytoy (end of page 1) is overlooking the fact that the police will likely have full riot gear plus batons, horses helicopters etc etc. The students, some of them, might have bicycle helmets to protect their heads in case the police put them in danger, but most of them won't have any protection - they are just young civilians protesting at injustice and non-democracy (remember the LibDems promised NOT to shaft the students.)
Something weird is going on in the politics thread. I tried posting about the demonstration, three times, and each time my post went blank when I clicked 'preview message' (first two times) and 'post message' (final time). A little header appeared over the blank page, '$topicname'. I hope someone from Mumsnet might be able to say why this is happening, or do I have to assume there's interference from outside?
I did manage to put up a short post under the 'politics' heading, saying this is happening, so if anyone can look at it and advise, I'd appreciate it.

Andrew please be so kind as to list the locations in London where 15,000 people might gather without disrupting anything. Ta

I think what Andrew is saying is that demonstrations can take place. So long as no-one sees it or is inconvenienced by it. So London is out dreamin. A field somewhere in Kent maybe?

yabu
but then I don't see why the students are of studying anyway, rather than causing chaos

that'll be because they will be demonstrating. It's like saying anyone shouldn't be demonstrating as they should be fixing cars/nursing someone/being a librarian and not actually complaining.

well as long as they don't break the law there will be no problems will there?

Ah I see Pan.

I hear the Shetlands are nice this time of year. Maybe that would work.

Seven but who are 'they'? Typically, tens of thousands of protesters don't break any law at all, and yet can end up detained for hours or charged with horses because of the unlawful acts of a small number of people. The police seem to be going with a policy of collective punishment, which should be quite suspect as they are interfering with people's civil rights.

And yes, let's not forget Ian Tomlinson, who was not breaking any law at all, was simply walking down the street, when he was assaulted by a police officer and later died.

so who ere all those hundreds of students trashing a building in london?
were they just innocent people walking down the street.

After the last student protests, I am not surprised. Half of those lot should have been shot with rubber bullets if you ask me

I don't know - during the first student riots the police were criticised for being heavy-handed, but a lot of destruction was wrought in Central London (which costs money to clean up, money which should not be wasted like this). Then during the riots in August, the police were accused of not doing enough. They seem to be in between a rock and a hard place.

I fully support the student's right to protest peacefully - they've been sold out by the politicians, especially by the Lib Dems who promised no hike in fees. I was thining about whether or not I would have gone to university with the fees as they are now, and I doubt it (or maybe I still would have; I'm a stubborn bugger). But, the last student demos did not go peacefully and they've already deviated the planned route (I believe it was supposed to start in the West End-ish area and move East towards the City) and started off in the City this morning, cause untold havoc at the train stations and would no doubt cause havoc with any planned policing.

No, they were a small fraction of the thousands of peaceful protesters.

I'm not saying they should be not be confronted and arrested -- obviously. But plastic bulets are really unsafe to use in mixed crowds, and there are other tools the police can use.

I'm not disputing that some people break the law and cause problems. I just don't think you can tell people that as long as they don't break the law they have nothing to worry about, as that is clearly not true. The police respond to the crimes of a few by punishing everybody (with kettling for example).

Just been up by St Pauls Tube and area is heaving with plods...all in riot gear, vans all over the shop, no sign pf protest yet. Am wondering if my choice of coat / boots today was a good one...Green parka and knee length DM's!!

Abs are you talking about the protest at Blackfriars? That was apparently an unrelated protest by construction workers.

Apparently Cannon Street station had to be closed this morning because of protests, so it may have been that.

AbsofCroissant you put that so well, and agree with you

I grew up in NI in 70s and 80s, the use of AEP bullets should never be used. I know they are different now, but when you remember the damage they caused .

Sorry a lot of uses in that sentence but you know what I mean

I trust the police a hell of a lot more than protestors and people who riot. I'd rather have armed police than an uncontrolled demonstration.

I am pleased they have them, for to long the police have had to take the shite thrown at them perhaps knowing they are available will mean those going out to just cause trouble will think twice meaning those wanting to protest not cause trouble can do what they set out to do.

Those causing trouble at the last protests ruined it for those who were protesting to hopefully make a change they turned the whole thing into being about the trouble which did the cause no good.

Hopefully they dont need to be used but I have no problem with the police having a way to defend themselves as long as only used as a last resort.