not to see how it can be anything but very rude to sit texting in a seminar?

[ElaineReese]

The majority of my students (first year undergrad) are lovely and attentive and I don't think this girl is particularly unpleasant in her own right..... but I can't see how you could not think for a moment that it is very rude to sit very blatantly texting through most of a seminar.

The problem is that it's difficult when you're not actually a school teacher, and they're not actually a child, to pull them up on bad manners like this without seeming schoolmarmish.

Would you expect this? Would you do it - if you were really really bored, which obviously I hope she is not and worry about?

Quite a few of them do it from time to time - but she does it LOADS and it's starting to really infuriate me. Do you think she would be surprised/appalled to be pulled up on it? And would I be unreasonable to collar her and tell her to bloody stop it?

So....point out that she is wasting her money and that of others by her behaviour and that she won't pass the module if she carries on.

You don't have to change your tone of voice, just break your sentence and point out the error of her ways, and then resume speaking.

I understand why it's probably not a good idea to chuck her out.

But tell her off! Or embarrass her by asking a question when you know she's not listening and point out that if she'd not been playing with her phone she'd know what the question was.

I bet she's annoying other students too. People did this drove me mad when I was at University (and I am guilty of falling asleep in a lecture once...)

Yes, one year I had a small group of very chatty girls who were difficult to shush, and they annoyed the mature students, especially, probably more than they did me, even.

I think that disaffection is catching though, and that's what is really pernicious about it. She's sending the message 'this is shit, I am bored, blah blah blah' to the whole group, and when one person is doing that even the most motivated ones start to be infected, IMO.

It's always worse in 9am groups, too. My 1pm lot are brilliant!

Sorry, but if I were still lecturing, that would be a 'send her out or chuck the phone in the bin' job. It is just NOT ON. DH has to turf students out all the time for this, and for taking calls. There are clear notices on the doors of all lecture theatres asking students to turn their phones off (or to silent, or whatever). Some of his colleagues operate a no-tolerance stance and ask students to leave. It works - sets an example and they don't mess around with phones again.

You have to ask them - why on earth are they putting themselves into debt and paying so much, if they're just going to sit and chat with friends, or ignore you? When it was merely a matter of taking tax-payers' money , you can sort of understand (well no, but YKWIM), but are these students getting value for their own, or their parents' money?

Gazing out of the window is another matter. Still wasting their time and money, but at least not distracting anyone else/putting you off your stride. If someone was regularly texting or taking calls in one of my lectures or seminars, I'd have been seriously distracted.

In all seminars etc we opened with a set of groundrules from students and some from lecturer that we had to adhere to. each lecture / seminar was opened by a reminder to switch off phones or put on silent if expecting an emergency call, and a reference to the rules. i would just pull her aside and have a word.

My approach would be to stop talking and wait, staring at her. When she realises, simply say "Have you finished? Thank you." and carry on. Or ask a relevant question to your group then ask her what her friend thinks.

You are in charge of your seminar, so you take charge.

I wasn't a mature student, but I'll take that as a compliment about my maturity

You're right though that boredom spreads. There were also a couple of really vocal moaners on our course who raged so much about how bad certain lecturers were that I swear they made it worse as other students assumed that if they didn't understand something it was the lecturer's fault.

The 'value for money' thing, you know, I really do not understand.

And I'm not sure they do, either.

They want 'contact time' and feel short-changed if they don't get enough of it; they want everything available electronically; they want and expect prompt replies to emails etc etc. They very frequently ask if I can mark drafts of essays 'to tell me if I'm going about it the right way' (no, I can't - would end up marking everyone's essay twice if we started that!)

So they do care...

Yet at the same time, a significant minority will sack off seminars whenever they can, don't want to read anything unless they will definitely have to write an essay about it (waste of time, obv!), would rather not go to seminars if they're on a subject they aren't planning to write about; are unable to contribute properly or stop yawning before 12 noon.

I suppose most of it is just Youth.... but I'm pretty sure it was different in My Day!

I think at that age they are big on their rights but sometimes need reminding about corresponding responsibilities.

You should say something.

I was in a lecturer last week and the lecturer simply stopped said "play with your phone all you like but I'm stopping until its away or you walk out" seconds later said phone was away and no more issues.

Elaine, the things you've told me that they want - that doesn't strike me as students wanting value for money, it sounds like they just want to be spoonfed. I'm old and past it and pathetically cynical, but when I had students nagging me for electronic links to articles (which often simply didn't exist) I'd just assume that the request was made because easier to upload and C&P them.

Of course it's also their youth and the idea they have that universities exist merely to service them.

"Strangle the bitch"...wow.

Anyway, I went to Uni as a mature student, graduated 5 years ago now and this really was not the done thing. We would not have batter an eyelid at being firmly recommended to put phones away, so go for it.

Wow...I can't believe lecturers actually noticed things like that when they're talking...I feel ashamed for texting during lectures now.

It is not just students. I teach in a couple of settings, one where groups of school kids come with their teachers for outdoor activities, I find it increasingly common for parents who accompany the groups (and staff) to text constantly while I am teaching. What sort of example is this for the kids? I recently had a well known TV personality as a parent helper, she spoke and texted constantly while I was speaking then had the cheek to come and ask what the kids had to do when she had to take them off to do an activity.

"From today mobile phones should be turned off whilst in my classroom. I do not text throughout my lessons and neither should you. If I see anybody using a mobile phone during one of my seminars again I will ask them to leave."

Schoolmarmish but fair IMHO.
I don't use my phone in seminars or lectures unless I have to and then I try and do it very discreetly. My tutors have always been clear about their stance on mobile phone usage, and I don't object.

Thing is, actually, I leave my phone out so I can check the time - no clock in some rooms, and if I'm doing a PPT then I can't see the screen clock.

Maybe I'm giving out mixed messages .

MrBloom this is seminar rather than lecture - but yes, if I'm giving a lecture even to the whole year group, because I make a point of looking up and engaging rather than reading my notes aloud and being (I hope) really REALLY boring, yes, I do notice texting and chatting and yawning if it happens! Sorry....

I'd make a general announcement at the beginning of the seminar 'could you all please make sure your mobile phones are turned off, and out of reach. I find it very distracting when people text during my classes, so I'd be grateful for your co-operation' Then just get on with your lesson.

texting during a class is disruptive to you and to other students, anyone who can't go for an hour without texting, however 'boring' they may find the class, is lacking in self control and immature, - if they can learn to be a bit more polite and considerate, it will them when they are out looking for jobs.

You have to call her on this. It's totally not on. It would annoy me as a tutor (though thankfully I've never had a student that rude) - it annoyed me even more as a student if tutors did nothing about it. She's disrupting everyone's learning, not just her own.

Back in the 80s my final year lectures were in a small group of 14 people max. 3 of them had the times spread in front of them and discussed the articles in the middle of lectures. Wrong then and wrong now. Disrespectful on so many levels.

Reshape - ROFL at !!

Can you refer it to a higher authority - the management of the college/uni you teach at?

They could issue a campus-wide edict about expected behavour and that might stop them. And any comment you subsequently have to make about it is just reinforcing the official rules and takes the pressure of you personally.

Don't think I would be as tolerant as you've been!

Stop talking in mid-sentence - she'll wonder what's happening and have to look up. You fix her with your beady eye, and say 'Thank you for joining us. Could you put that away now?' And then carry on as if nothing had happened.

And repeat.

I am licenced to be strict by MN, I think - bring on the week after reading week

Elaine - sympathy from another academic who's just had a particularly unsatisfactory seminar which featured (a) several students who hadn't read the material (b) one who had to be asked to put her phone away, and (c) another who hadn't realised she 'was supposed to read the entire poetry collection' and tried to blame me for not telling her which specific poems she had to read! Which is very dim behaviour when the person you are pissing off is the one marking your work, and I guarantee those two will come looking for references in the next few weeks, and be wounded and astonished when I say that nothing I could say about their performance in my module is likely to make them seem like good prospects for anyone recruiting for an MA.

It doesn't help that it's the 5-7 slot, that I am 20 weeks pregnant and exhausted, and that the good people are outnumbered by the uninterested in this group. You've had good advice on here, so I'll just say keep fighting. Term will eventually end.