to want a glass of wine after vows?

[crackedblackpepper]

Im in massive turmoil at the moment.
I am a Buddhist I have been for about ten years, though I feel like I always have been even before I came across the teachings and had the opportunity to engage in retreats and even to teach meditation myself.

When I was 20 I took these vows they are basic Buddhist precepts called Pratimosksha vows, They have been challenging and rewarding to keep in equal measure 1.dont lie 2.dont steal 3.dont kill 4.dont take intoxicants 5.dont have sexual misconduct (cheat on your partner)

For seven years I have been keeping these vows as purely as possible but since moving into a house with my partner I have been really craving alcohol, I haven't even thought of drinking or been tempted in the slightest untill recently, I am in such conflict because I have enjoyed how stable and grounded I have become since stopping drinking in mylife and I'm quite attached to the identity of being a non-drinker.

I like how it is beneficial to my mental health to leave it alone but Im craving just a glass of wine to relax, also I've moved to a place where lots of friends live nearby, lots are Buddhist and some are not but there are loads of partys and small gatherings which I can never quite relax at, and I wish I could have just one drink to relax but I worry about breaking my vows and drifting away from my spiritual path that has been such a huge part of my life for so long and has also shaped me and made me a far better person.
ahgh I just wish I could make up my mind, its such a rare thing but any wise insight please?

I can't see the point in continuing to deprive yourself of something that you want. Of the 5 vows you made, the remaining 4 seem like the most important ones to keep, in terms of being a good person and leading a kind and good life. Having a glass of wine will not hurt you or anyone else and you may find that having had one, you are satisfied and can go back to not drinking.

I don't believe in self deprivation, just for the sake of it. Giving something up is right if you want to do it, but not if you think it is holding you back from what you now want. I don't think you should go back to drinking loads, if that was having a negative impact on you, but perhaps your beliefs have led you to a point where you can moderate yourself and can be certain that you won't go OTT in drinking.

You sound like you think that alcohol will solve your problems, or relieve some of your anxiety. Is there a healthier way you could relax yourself, like exercise or meditation?

I agree with karmabeliever that you there's no point depriving yourself for the sake of it, but I would also suggest that you don't sound like your reasons to break such deeply held vows are particularly healthy either...

Forgive me, but it sounds like you maybe had an unhealthy attitude to alcohol in the past, and it was a problem? If so, then I don't think you can just relax and not worry about the occasional drink - many peopl can, and would have the odd one socially without it being an issue. But then those people maybe wouldn't feel a strong craving for one either...

Can you look at other things to help you relax in social settings?

Thank you for your responses,I am sorry not to respond before now, I am working full time and studying full time too, so I don't have much time.

I haven't had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol in the past, I was a normal teenager sometimes getting drunk but have always had a strong sense of individuality and very often would go to night clubs with my friends whilst they were taking drugs and drinking & I would dance till the sun came up- with nothing but water in me!

I won't bore you with the extensive reasons for this but I am basically very protective over my mental health because my mum has schizophrenia and I have never wanted to do anything harmful to my mind even before I found Buddhism.

It's not so much that I think I would harm anyone when drinking, though I think it would cause a lack of mindfulness of my speech and actions which could harm others (no more than when I'm overtired or PMT'd!).

Its like there's no room for alcohol now, I give all my time to the children I nanny for and I would hate to have even a trace of alcohol in my system when they're under my care.

It's just because I'm so busy I don't have time, at present to be as involved with the spiritual meditation classes so I have lost my support network so feel a bit in 'free-fall', part of the chain is missing which helped me make sense of the vows I took but where I'm associating with ordinary people all day every day (who never even question alcohol consumption) I have started to think 'oh what harm will it do?'

Whereas I used to cherish my vows and enjoy living a life which was dedicated to a more pure way of life, I can't help but feel a longing for how I used to feel.

Sorry you can tell I'm confused I hope I can just get over it it's just I need to revisit the reason whey I took those vows in the first place because I don't want to be one of those rigid people who walk blindly through their faith it has to follow a logical line of reasoning my views have to be movable up for debate and sensible, not just dogmatic and lacking essence.

Anyway sorry if I sound like a religious nut-job I'm just de-tangling and trying to preserve the good things and shed old things thanks so much for your insight always good to hear other perspectives

What is the reasoning behind the vows? Was the vow not to take an intoxicant or not to become intoxicated?

The age of 20 is a very young age to be taking such life-affecting vows.

Is there a buddhist monk you can talk to for guidance?

"because I'm so busy I don't have time, at present to be as involved with the spiritual meditation classes so I have lost my support network"

^ This ^ is what you're missing, and alcohol won't solve that.

Peer pressure is not a good reason to do anything. The odd glass of wine is a perfectly normal part of my life, but I drink it because I enjoy the taste and the slightly buzzy feeling I get. Those are my personal reasons and i don't have the same life as you.

How many of the non-Buddhists you're spending time with feel pressured to have "just one more" than they're really comfortable with? Or to go out for a quick drink after work because "everyone else is"? Do you want that for yourself?

As a drinker, who probably drinks too much than is good for me, here is my view:

If you drink one glass of wine, you will probably want another as it is true that it helps you to relax, but one of the reasons people find it hard to stop is because they want that feeling to last and to carry on and also they don't realise just how drunk they are getting. You can kid yourself that you are actually in control when you are not.

If you are craving alcohol now I wonder why? You don't drink and have never had alcohol issues so why the craving? Could it be the alcohol you crave or is it something else? Do you want to feel more social with a glass of wine in your hand or do you find it hard to wind down after work?

Trouble is that if you rely on alcohol to wind down then that is an addiction of sorts because nothing else will do. My weekends are dull and boring without wine because I've not found a substitute and now rely on wine to help me to relax. Perhaps you need to consider an alternative, like going to the gym as the endorphins released will help you to chill and joining a gym class will be cheaper than drinking wine.

Also you can get lovely non-alcoholic drinks that you could take to parties so that you do feel part of it with a lovely glass of bubbly in your hand, the only difference is that it's non-alcoholic but it is just as tasty. I love the schloer drinks.

I'm going to give up alcohol after the MN do on the 26th of Nov until Christmas because I tend to give myself a limit but then the limit slowly drops and before I know it I'm back to my old ways, so I do try to have a period of abstinance every now and then.

I sometimes wish I had never started drinking and then I wouldn't worry about my health so much, I'd have more money in my pocket and I do think I may be genuinely happier.

I think these religious guidelines are a little like the rules we set down for our children. They seem unfair at the time but they are actually there for their own good. If we all followed the guidelines just think what a better place this would be.

Thanks, there are a lot of monks and nuns I could talk to, some are very extreme some are very balanced.

thanks for pointing me in that direction any way because I know that if I took refuge in Buddhist friends I would feel inspired to keep the vows and the conflict would go away.

You've hit the nail on the head really-this has started to happen because I have just been avoiding Buddhist friends lately because I felt a bit annoyed with some of the aspects of religion the fact that everyone has to think the same thing or you get like blanket advise 'well if you're in mental pain that must mean you're cherishing your self only' little niggles like the hierarchy within Buddhist traditions, this kind of thing, though true doesn't feel like an answer to my problems and my mind and practice is quite weak at the moment.

My partner for instance has been a Buddhist for many many years and he occasionally smokes weed and very occasionally has a pint, but he is a lovely kind and good man with a lot of faith, then there are nuns who are keeping their vows purely but treat people quite badly from what I can see so I'm starting to realize that you just have to be your best self.

hmm

sometimes what initially liberated you from suffering ultimately becomes what appears to be a cage

rhubarb thank you so much for your insight, I really appreciate it, I think I just do find it hard to wind down after work and I have only got either Buddhist friends who I sometimes feel judged by because I don't go to any of the classes or events and people who are kind of hedonistic drinking Buddhist, they can't quite relax around me because I'm not joining in with the drinking etc and I feel like this "stiff goody two shoes" not laughing along with the drunken ramblings so they can't relax around me they always spend ages at parties justifying to me why they drink/ smoke etc and I am very un -judgemental ALL my beloved family love a drink and occasional joint and I fully accept them I just am very much live and let live.
So I don't fit in any where and i feel isolated

It's often said on here - just because you have children the same age doesn't mean you have to be friends. Possibly, in your case, just because you follow the same religion doesn't mean you have to be friends!

Find the friends that suit you as a person, not as a "Mum", "Buddhist", "Teetotaller" or whatever other label you put on yourself

PS my sil is teetotal for religious reasons (not buddhist) and it doesn't make her any less lovely! We just do other things, because imo going to the pub is not the be-all and end-all of life. It also means I'll be using cold tea in the Christmas cake instead of brandy unless you have a better suggestion

It sounds as though the crowd of people you socialise with are very judgemental either way. They either judge you for not wholly going along with your religion or they judge you for not drinking with them.

Drinkers always try to justify their drinking as we feel guilty about it you see. We try to pretend that we don't actually drink all that much at all and it never affects our health and we only ever drink on social occasions etc etc. If someone has to justify one of their life choices then they've obviously made a bad one.

I would never have a go at someone who chose not to drink. I would actually admire them for their self control and it might even encourage me to have a coke instead of a beer.

They need to accept you for who you are and you need to accept yourself too. Don't feel that you have to belong, you can be just as fulfilled by being true to yourself and in staying healthy you are setting a good example to your children and will hopefully lead a very pro-active life with them for many years to come. We only have one life and it seems to me that we spend all of that time trying to blot out this wonderful gift and ruin our bodies with every drug we can think of. Life is there to be lived, not to be tolerated and drugged. I think you're wonderful for choosing to live life sober and drug-free.

purplepidgin - those mulled wine packets. Mix them with water (or cold tea) instead of red wine and it gives your Christmas cake an extra punch.

Genius!

See, sobriety brings inspiration

And I agree with Rhubarb0 - get yourself some more tolerant mates! It's your choice and it's no more wrong or right than theirs!

I have thankfully now left behind a colleague who has two small children who she has left in her country of origin to be raised by their father while she works here. I don't agree with that choice, but she doesn't know that and never will. However, she thought it perfectly acceptable to try and convince me that I should have children soon because at 30-next-week I'm getting too old Think of this the same way, and think how you would advise me to deal with her judgmental attitude...

I had a friend who is a Buddhist. She is a dancer. She treats her body very well. She would only occasionally come out for drinks. She would not drink a lot, either a glass or red wine or two. Or cognac and coffee. I have never seen her drunk. She would drink maybe once a month, not more.

I think with any religion, rules are there for guidance, not to make a cage for people.

But I agree with a lot of what has been said about you maybe want to fill the void created by less meditation, with alcohol, may not be the way to go.

I've had similar conversations with my dad over the years. Of its any help, the monk at my dad's vihara works on the theory that when you recite the vows, you mean them to last as long as you mean them to last - all things being transient. This means you can make vows at a wedding, meaning them for the duration of the ceremony but there isno conflict with then having a glass or two to celebrate the nuptials.

That may just be one tradition though.

golemmings, I had a mate at uni who's dad was a bit like that. Strict muslim, who would interpret "not a drop of alcohol" as meaning he could pour the first drop away and drink the rest of the bottle

I've realized that by coming to mumsnet for advise I've been judgmental too, hoping that you would all back up my wishes to drink and help me follow an natural course of action for me at this moment, I think I underestimated how wise and balanced a cross section of women would be and I thank you each for this.

I think I'm just craving to feel fully relaxed/ fully comfortable and just let my hair down, this doesn't need to happen through alcohol.

Thanks all for helping me untangle this weird wobble- I'm sure there'll be more but for now having had help from you to re-evaluate my decision, I'm going to stick to and enjoy the liberation which you've reminded me these vows bring me

un-natural

And it is a liberation because alcohol does so much damage to so many peoples lives. Yes there are those who can have just one glass and stick to it, but even they will admit to having drunk too much on occasion. Alcohol blurs your senses and leaves you feeling very much out of control. Even after one glass you may say or do something you would never do normally. Some people interpret that as a surge in confidence but it's not really, it's the drink making you behave in a way that you, by nature, would normally not. So by being sober you are actually free from the controlling nature of alcohol and I am envious as a result!

I told my dh that I am to give up after the 26th until Christmas and he just said "good luck". I guess I'm on my own then!

I think non-alcoholic wines are quite tasty, actually. Why not try a glass or two of that?