More a WWYD about friends dd and 11+

[soandsosmummy]

My friend has had her dd going to a private tutor in preparation for the 11+ since she was in year 3. She's said to me loads of times that she does not think her dd is capable of passing or that if she does she'll carry on needing a tutor. I've suggested plenty of times that she should look at less selective options but instead they decided to send their dd to extra tutor sessions over the last 6 months.

Now the test is this month and her daughter came to find me in playground earlier to tell me she really doesn't want to do test and i don't know what to do. She says she's told her mum and dad but they've told her she has to do it. She wants to go to the local school with her friends Its obvious she wants me to tell her mum but I suspect it will just be dismissed as last minute nerves and I'll be hated for daring to interfere.

I really don't know what to do. Whatever I do I'm going to really upset someone aren't I?

Why did she 'come to find you in the playground' to tell you that?

It's a bit odd isn't it? Or has she picked up on any negative feelings from you about it?

If the dd really doesn't want to do it, she is unlikely to do well in the exam. And problem solved, she won't get in.

Parents happy they've done their best to get her into the school.

DD happy that she's not got in.

You haven't had to lose friends or anything over it.

Tell the DD to flunk the test deliberately, then she'll end up going to the local school :)

Honestly, I'm all for helping your children to achieve to the best of their abilities but if they haven't got the academic ability to go to grammar school without years and years of extra tuition, you're setting them up for a life of misery (and resentment)

Butt out. It's none of your business (although I happen to agree with you that tutoring for the 11+ is daft).

I don't suppose telling her mum is going to make any difference tbh. She will still have to do the test. She may just be getting last minute nerves about it. I wouldn't say anything if I were you as she will have done it soon enough anyway .

She came to me because she knows I'm good friend with her mum and we talk a lot and share a lot of stuff between us

What I've said to her for now is that she should do the best she feels able to with the test and that having worked really hard for ages she shouldn't throw all that away I also said that if she does not pass she won't feel its her fault where as if she deliberately does it badly she'll spend years wondering if she did the right thing. I've not promised to talk to anyone but its obvious she wants me to :(

"although I happen to agree with you that tutoring for the 11+ is daft"

If you have two equally bright children and one has had extensive tutoring and one hasn't, it's likely that the one who's had the most tutoring will get the higher grade. Hence the nuclear proliferation in tutoring for children trying to get into selective schools.

OP - say and do nothing. Child will probably fail 11+, problem solved. If she doesn't fail she may well find she enjoys her grammar, if not then it's up to the family to resolve the situation.

think I'm going to take the butt out advice on board by the way!

I went to a grammar school. I wasn't tutored. I got in. and there was plenty of hot housing going on, especially in the prep schools (I went to local primary) to try and get children through it, even then.

It was quite clear who had been tutored as they struggled, and some in fact left to go to local private schools instead in year 8 and 9 as they weren't keeping up.

I think you handled it perfectly so far - great advice to the dd and no promises made - and suggest you don't do anything more unless either she or her mum raises the subject again.

Poor girl, what a lot of pressure on a child :(

I'm not sure I agree that you should stay quiet though, as she really wants you to say something. She already feels like her parents aren't listening (certainly seems like they aren't), maybe she just needs somebody to stick up for her?

It almost certainly won't make any difference, but at least one adult won't be letting her down. At least you will have tried and she will know that somebody is listening.

I'm not sure what you'd have to lose by saying something in passing.

I don't think OP is letting her down by not saying something. She hasn't been asked and she hasn't promised to do something she then won't do. She has listened and given some very sound advice. Although OP has her opinion, she doesn't have the full facts so needs to tread carefully otherwise she'll be seen as an interfering busybody. So far, OP, I think you are treading a fine line really well.

Do you think she is hoping you will tell her mum? Perhaps telling you was a cry for assistance? Maybe she really needs you to tell her mum how she's feeling, since her mum won't listen to her?

but at 11 do you really know whats best for you? can you be responsible for your own education?

i went to grammar school and hated it, and my mum told me that that was down to me as she had given me the choice of which school to attend, i had chosen the grammar as i knew girls who were going there, but we didnt end up friends anyway, i didnt realise how fluid relationships were, etc at that age.

it seems this girl is the same, she wants to go to the school her friends are going to, but they will probab;y drift apart anyway, there are more important considerations then that.

i am glad i went, because of the prestige of the school, but i dont feel the education and opportunities were any better.

No, but you have to feel listened to. If this girl feels her voice is not being heard, then the parents need to do something about that.

My kids mostly don't get their own way, but I listen to how they feel and explain why I am making this decision. If she hasn't already done this - and she might have - if she hasn't, then she needs to.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the OP telling her friend what the daughter has said, and maybe advising they sit down and have a chat about it all.

If this girl wasn't needing the tutoring and she was just unhappy to be moving on her friends (if she passes) I would feel much more certain about this. She will likely make new friends at secondary school even if some of her primary school friends are there. I got into the local selective school, with two others from my primary school. They were both put into the same class, I was put in a different one. None of us played together or hung out, not even the two in the same class and one of the two was one of my closest friends at primary school. It's a natural point for moving on.

It's too much pressure for her. The tests can be very hard on the child, especially if the parents at home are pushing hard and saying how important it is. The mother says herself that her dd doesn't have what it takes but is still pushing ahead with the tests. Tutoring will not suddenly make your child a genius, and all the tutoring in the world will not make the child pass the test if they don't have 'it' in the first place. I knew a child who was tutored extensively for the tests but still got quite a low score.

The problem is, and I suspect the girl may be feeling this, what happens if she doesn't get in? If there is such high expectation at home she may feel that her mother will be very disappointed in her. Very sad for the girl but at the end of the day there's not much you can do. Maybe all that you can do is try and talk to your friend in a round about way about the effect of the tests on her daughter.

Part of the issue is that althogh I know mum well I've only met her dad a few times and I suspect he's the one pulling the strings in all this and whatever reservations her may mum may / has raised have been over ruled - not certain of this but get the feeling from some of the things her mum said. She described him as being obsessed with getting their dd into grammar.

What a mess I really am best not making it worse aren't I?

I think the best advice you can give the child is to tell her parents how she feels. You can be sure that the head will have discussed her views frankly with the parents and that they have already ignored her advice and will take absolutely no notice of yours. Best to keep the status quo and be there for the girl when the refusal letter comes along. That's the time to be a real friend and big her up.

Thanks everyone

I'm suffering from depression at the moment and not really thinking things through properly. Its good to have a sounding board. Sorry if it looked like i was drip feeding by the way I was just thinking things though and adding as they occurred ot me

Poor girl! What a load of pressure for a child of that age! I don't agree with the butt out advice, she has come to you for help!

Would the butt out advice apply to any situation the girl was going though Georgimama? Or does that just apply to immense pressure to perfome academically? What if it was bullying or abuse? Or the girl was thinking of taking drugs or what feeling depressed? You might think it's not as serious but kids have committed suicide for less.

excuse the typos!

at equating the 11+ to bullying and abuse. Yes clearly because i think the op should butt out of this she should turn a blind eye to abuse.

ffs.

Just a thought OP but you don't happen have a DD the same age as this little girl who's not doing the 11+ and going to the local school instead, do you?

If I'm still living in the same area as I am now I will be doing everything I possibly can to get DS into the Grammar schools if we can't afford to go private. We make children do lots of things that they don't want to do and I don't see why this is any different.