"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

Oh FFS, what people are saying is that her basic premise, her opening sentence 'You come to expect it, as a woman writer, particularly if you're political. You come to expect the vitriol, the insults, the death threats.' should be amended to delete the 'woman' bit, because it's irrelevant as to whether you receive hate mail.

Great big cocks squeaky?

Eleanor if a man posted the sort of explicit sexual language you seem to so strongly favour, I think he'd be accused of being a pervert...getting his rocks off at speaking to women that way.

Sorry but you're making me feel a bit sick with it and you're coming across as a bit pervy

Sorry, ignore that base remark, I shouldn't have revealed my immaturity so easily.

So if someone e-mails a female journalist telling her that her suckhole needs to be stopped with a cock to stop her talking, that's no more evidence of misogyny, than e-mailing a black journalist, telling him that he needs to get back to the cotton field, is evidence of racism then?

How exactly do you have to insult a white man for it to be a form of 'ism'? Jeremy Clarkson is a "middle class"
Richard Hammond is a "short arsed"
Chris Evans is a "ginger haired"

You get the idea...

Or are they immune because they are not a minority group?

She also suggests that white, straight men can post their opinions on the internet without fear of abuse, which, as Dawkins demonstrates, is bollocks.

Perhaps if she wrote an article saying 'hey, lots of people get abuse thrown at them on the internet, but isn't it interesting how much of that aimed at women is specifically sexually threatening' she might have grounds for an interesting discussion.

The kindest thing I can say about the article that it was rambling, irrelevant drivel.

That is also the worst thing I can be bothered to say.

For crying out loud, what's 'militant' or 'attention-seeking' about objecting to a combination of threats to spread a journalist's home address with violent rape fantasies directed at her, particularly the creepily-detailed oral gang rape ones specifically designed to shut her up by filling her mouth with the penises that are clearly supposed to be in it instead of, you know, opinions on economic policymaking?

Because if she really wanted to talk about the serious issue of sexual threats of violence to women HC, then she would have said something like noblegiraffe suggested along the lines of 'hey, lots of people get abuse thrown at them on the internet, but isn't it interesting how much of that aimed at women is specifically sexually threatening'.

But she chose a more sensationalist approach.

Of course she would, she's a journalist, and taking a considered factual approach wouldn't get her half as much publicity.

I am really laughing at you being outraged at a journalist being called attention-seeking

That's what they're paid for!

I've seen stuff like that directed to men on twitter HardCheese.

Duncan Banatyne went off his tits about threats made to his family (in particular sexual ones about his daughter). Its been well publicised.

Threats are issued every day to either gender, people don't want to listen to other people's views. I found the article mind-numbing, arguing for the sake of arguing. What is the point in tryng to incite people to find offense at this sort of crap?

Yes, you can write what you like, you might even get a rag to publish it but not everybody is going to appreciate it. Some people, instead of being quietly disgusted, make horrible threats. Threats are a police matter. That's what a person outside of the public eye would do, why are journalists different? That's the attention-seeking part maybe? Like prodding a wasps nest until one comes out and stings you... and then bleating on about how unfair it is.

Of course she would, she's a journalist, and taking a considered factual approach wouldn't get her half as much publicity

Yup!

Take the photo of Terry Wogan and his semi hardon.....

I find that hilarious (as much of MN do)

But how funny would certain miserable staunch feminist posters find it if it were a woman's camel toe or hard nipples?

"Duncan Banatyne went off his tits about threats made to his family (in particular sexual ones about his daughter)."

Haven't you just negated your entire point with this?

It's not even him receiving the threats, but his daughter and they're sexual threats? In other words, exactly what the author of this piece is going on about...?

I disagree. It was about going round to his house. And to upset him. Its about what would get to him most. She wasn't the real target of the threat. He was.

I'm trying to think of the female i saw a similar thing happen to - target was kids, not sexual but threats of violence. It may have been Louise Mensch, but I can't remember.

I just find it slightly odd that in trying to illustrate that men suffer exactly the same thing, the example you choose involves sexual threats to a man's female family member!

By the way, the is aimed at the irony, not the threats or situation itself in case that isn't blatantly obvious...

A woman has received vile messages including vivid description of sexual violence. She receives this kind of stuff a lot. She posts some of the examples to show people.

Within a couple of pages we've had:

A) Everyone who posts online gets abuse

B) 'The author is an attention seeking militant'

C) 'she invites criticism by her inflammatory blogs and tweets'

D) 'if its a man the old 'paedo' line tends to get thrown instead.'

E) 'Not convinced its a feminist issue'

F) If you put yourself into the public eye, you will receive very mixed comments

G) It's only words on a screen

H)' But it is not just women who get nasty comments'

F) Again. 'It is not a "feminist" issue.'

I) 'she definitely tailors things and makes it all about being female.'

J) 'Abuse on the internet by trolls is not worse for women, confined to women, or thrown at women by men because they are women'

New Statesman Article.

Washington Post 2007

She's not just 'A woman' though is she Narky? She's a woman who's chosen a career in journalism, one where she's made the decision to write about the strong opinions she holds.

I take my anonymity seriously when I post, I'm aware of people 'out there' who dedicate much of their lives to breaking down the barrier I believe there should be between the interenet and real life, and get something from the harrassment and threats they like to dole out.

Only the most naive person would start posting about contentious issues on the net without thinking through how they might be a target to these people.

Most of the bloggers on your link have resolved this by letting it wash over them, but I honestly don't believe they're being targeted by men who think because they're women they stop worrying their pretty little heads about serious stuff like politics.

The responsibility lies with the men and women spouting the insults.

Eleanor O'Hagan (any relation to the poster on the thread?) said she started to water down feminist viewpoint, and maybe that's what needs to happen? A midway point between very 'radical', and what I would think of as 'taking feminist offence at the world and everything in it', and the men and women who haven't engaged with feminism before.

What she actually said was 'I noticed that making feminist arguments led to more abuse, and as a result, I rarely wrote about feminism at all. I was so nervous about the abuse I would receive when I wrote an article about cultural misogyny.'

That's not 'water(ing) down'. That's being frightenend into silence.

And apparently if you have strong opinions then you should expect to receive personal threats and abuse including vivid descriptions of your rape. If you're a woman. Not that it's in any way a feminist issue, even though men aren't routinely threatened with sexual violence for expressing their opinions. So you should water them down.

Because posting strong feminist views is basically asking for people to threaten you with rape.