"A woman's opinion is the miniskirt of the internet"

[HedleyLamarr]

I posted this in Feminism [brave emoticon], and someone has suggested putting it in AIBU.

So, I was sent a link to this article in the Independent. Your thoughts/ideas are much appreciated .

PartyPooperz... From what I recall, MNHQ moderated that pretty fast. To pretend otherwise diminishes that. The ultimate moderation would have been for posters affected to post elsewhere or just log off. Why should MNHQ provide a locked-down board? Create your own and moderate it.

The feminist board as it is excludes those who 'don't fit'. I don't see that as a particular problem, there are other boards to post on. I do see it as a problem when the prescriptive and exacting feminist 'standards' are stipulated across other boards and 'wall of sour' describes it perfectly.

Oh come now chibi don't be churlish, you are not being silenced you just need to make your points pleasantly like a good girl and you might just be listened to.

It'll be just like Primeminister's Question Time in the House of Commons - where everyone just makes their points and asks their questions pleasantly and politely while deciding the future of the country - not raucous at all. See - that's how people get listened to. Nothing to do with power, status, wealth or gender. Everything to do with a nice soft voice and a pleasing manner.

LyingWitch "Why should MNHQ provide a locked-down board?" I don't know. Why did the SN board become locked-down?

chibi... How does chatting on a forum help with that cause exactly? Nice turn of phrase you have there... 'monster'?

I'm sure people rally to whatever you say, you really have a way about you, a terrific way to persuade and influence. Objective achieved?

what kind of monster is happy for women to keep on being attacked because a handful of internet feminists didn't ask for their support nicely and anodynely enough

Are you calling me a monster Chibi?
How fucking hilarious.
But you see Chibi - I am one of the women you all claim to care so much about. I was raped when I was 26 and he got 7 years for attempted murder.

This is why people are so wary of feminism - because so many women in the movement seem to actively despise other women.

I mean really who would think that any women would not agree with there being a terrible problem with rape threats against female bloggers and journalists etc!

We are pointing out that this is not just limited to women, its a feature of the Internet that anyone with strong opinions will get abuse. That is the fallacy in Laurie Penny's reasoning (wel l its not really, she's been around long enough to know the score, IMO the article itself is just more of her journalistic approach anyway...)

This is why people are so wary of feminism - because so many women in the movement seem to actively despise other women

Precisely Esta. Chibli has proved that rather well too. Mocking, disdainful, scathing and patronising. Not exactly a poster girl for feminism.

Thinking about it... I'm quite happy to lobby MNHQ to lock-down the feminist board... on the proviso that they don't come out again...

Esta3GG - wow nothing like a 1970s feminist telling the next generation how to "do feminism"

Following up this OP with eg "abuse and death threats are not solely directed at women journos/writers." is IMO a what about the men argument.

Would love to know what my "crass insults" have been.

sorry for having caused offense. i am confused as to how kind, moral, people of integrity can be blase in the face of epic human suffering because they weren't asked pleasantly enoigh

i can understand feeling overwhelmed, or despairing or powerless, or cynical, but not giving a shit about profound suffering because you weren't asked pleasantly enough?

really?

furthermore, who are these people who require polite and gentle persuading that rape is shit and it would be super if it could be stopped?

Chibi, it is possible to give a shit about suffering without signing up to the sisterhood.

Est3GG Your experience sounds utterly horrific .

I don't despise anyone. I do find it strange that people can make wild sweeping assertions (whether it be making up statistics on the fly or there are no posters aimed solely at women avoiding crime) and when they're shown that the assertions are baseless, refuse to acknowledge it. And I think that's why some women are scared of feminism - because, for example, in the context of this thread, it is scary to open your eyes and realise your 'magical' ways of avoiding becoming a victim will not and cannot protect you. The only thing that can protect you is not encountering a rapist/murderer/attacker.

Following up this OP with eg "abuse and death threats are not solely directed at women journos/writers." is IMO a what about the men argument.

But the article in the OP said that abuse and death threats were soley directed at women (see the last paragraph where it says white straight men can post freely on the internet without fear of abuse) and therefore this did need correcting.

I don't like the way you've insinuated that me thinking a lock down of the feminist boards would be a fucking disgrace PP, is the same as thinking people threatening sexual violence is OK, so please don't do it again.

And can I ask you what you mean when you say 'But then I guess this thread already establishes that yes, it is. ' please?

Moderation Lying? Or censorship by a dominant minority in an attempt to set what subjects are allowed on the discursive agenda?

Much like the accusations leveled at the male population in my mind.

forkful

This is AIBU as such the "what about the menz" card is not relevent.

besides no one has said that the men get the abuse worse just differently and as such internet abuse is not a gendered issue.

And I think that's why some women are scared of feminism - because, for example, in the context of this thread, it is scary to open your eyes and realise your 'magical' ways of avoiding becoming a victim will not and cannot protect you. The only thing that can protect you is not encountering a rapist/murderer/attacker

That is YOUR belief. Much like religion, we are all free to choose our own beliefs.

I am not "scared" of feminism. I have just never found the feminist approach towards others to be one which I feel comfortable with. I support equality, not superiority, and sadly the more I see of feminists these days, the more they seem to subscribe to the man-hating image than ever before.

wow nothing like a 1970s feminist telling the next generation how to "do feminism"

Yeah fuck us stupid old bitches for getting abortion legalised and marital rape outlawed eh? Jesus.

How dense are people if they are incapable of recognising that messages can be delivered a variety of ways?
Clearly bellowing AT people, abusing and insulting and humiliating people is achieving fuck all - so try another tactic.

Not rocket science is it - although clearly a step too far for some to comprehend.

Thanks Forkful, like I said, I was unsure as to where this should go. I admit to and at those that say "well, she writes such and such so should expect it", which appears to me to excuse the threats made. I have got angry on here: once I directed my anger in a positive way by helping to publicise a fellow MNers plight, and once I reacted badly and my post was deleted. But I saw no reason to threaten any sort of violence, and still don't. Either online or in real life.

Lying Where did I insult you that you felt you needed to be insulting yourself?

"I really can't be bothered, PartyPooperz, you're taking the mick and seemingly trying to silence anybody else who doesn't fall down at your feet.

Take your pompous, patronising chat elsewhere if you don't want to engage."

I'm trying to silence people (how? where? when?) and you think that entitles you to kick me off the thread. I didn't realise you were in charge of the thread and who could post on it, but if you are, well, I'm not going to have much luck silencing people am I when all you have to do is tell me to go elsewhere. If that's not trying to silence someone I am not sure what is. Oxymoron.

"But the article in the OP said that abuse and death threats were soley directed at women (see the last paragraph where it says white straight men can post freely on the internet without fear of abuse) and therefore this did need correcting."

Right - here we have a female journalist/blogger and in other linked articles many more and in the comments etc saying that they fear abuse based on hate speech directed at them.

Where are the articles about white straight male journalists/bloggers stating that they fear abuse? Of course they receive some but they are not on such a grand scale receiving rape threats and threats that people will come and search them out etc.

I am pretty certain that a lot of female MNers would be more wary then men of having a blog/writing an article which identified them.