to hope that universities do start making offers only when A Level results are known?

[grovel]

Then we can scrap A/S levels as a predictor. Teachers will have 2 years to take youngsters from GCSE to A Level standard without an intermediate set of exams. A lovely sixth form summer when kids can learn and think without revision.

IShallWearMidnight, I agree. Am not suggesting a year off. Just that if we skip A/S levels we buy a term of teaching (rather than revision for A/S) which allows A levels to be taken a few weeks earlier the following year. Time for marking of A levels by June for October entrance to university.

Yes. And for the following year so there would not be a mad rush. Some would decide not to go but they will be the ones who would have dropped out.

And they should not be allowed to ask what an applicant's parents do for a living or whther they went to university, and the identity of the school should be concealed behind a code number so that they cannot indulge in social engineering.

I believe what you suggest does happen in some countries, Germany maybe.
I think it would be a good idea (speaking as a teacher and a parent).

I can't believe how the British system works, to be honest. It is completely nonsensical. It must be the only country in the World in which children have to apply to Uni BEFORE knowing their grades, predict said grades, then get accepted/rejected, and THEN get their real grades, to once again deal with the university application. What is the logic in this???

Spain: You get your high school grades and take an exam called "Selectividad". The grades in this exam make an average with your high-school grades. ONCE YOU KNOW ALL THIS GRADES, then you apply to the university you can get into... because most schools in university set a minimum grade you need to be able to get in.

How the hell do the British children know which school they can apply to when they have no idea what grades they'll be getting??

Oh, the Selectividad exam takes place in June, and by law all the exams must be marked in July, way before application deadlines in Uni. A number of high school teachers are chosen in advance and designated "Selectividad exam markers", and paid accordingly. They work full-time correcting the exams and deliver them in time every year, with a short period for claims.

Not that hard, really.

tyler80 - in many countries with post-results university application, the stakes aren't as high as in the UK. In the UK, we have a highly selective university entrance system where a child's whole future hinges on his/her A-level results. In many countries, universities take on more students in first year than they are places in second year, and cull at the end of the first year (and again at the end of the second year, too). Only a small percentage of students starting out in the first year of some subjects make it through to qualification in the normal allotted time.

quirrelquarrel - the big problem with school systems based on memorisation and factual recall is that they do not equip children to take adult decisions, in any shape or form.

Bonsoir The culling at end of first year seems to becoming routine here too. I know a lot of young people who have fallen to that (not all hit the social scene full on). Recall reading about I think Greenwich where such a significant % departed the architecture course it made the newspapers.

Did nobody else do exams every single year in school then? Aside from my first year in secondary, we had exams every Summer. Made GCSE's and A'levels a much less stressful experience as we were all well used to doing exams.

Nope. Did an O level a year early. Did mock O's the following Xmas and the O's in the summer. 18 months later at the Xmas again mock A levels. A levels in the summer. Definitely no exams lower down the school, bit of assessed course work in O level year but only in English & History. The odd test for setting yes. No exams in 1st year 6th form.

Exams for every subject, every summer. Mocks, then GCSEs, then summer exams mid a'levels, then more mocks, then actual A'levels. 10 loads of exams.. easily.

hrrummppff

Bonsoir, do you really think the current English system, which sacrifices so much to teach to the blessed test, can be commended for turning out mature, independent-minded, decisive 18 year olds? I thought the general consensus was that we were all demotivated, couldn't take intiative, have no drive etc etc...and on top we know less than our parents did at that age!
I mean- yes, by all means, teach us how to think well! But if they won't, we might as well focus on cold hard facts and stop cushioning things.

I do agree with what people say...where are the Rebecca Wests amongst us? Not even in the History books...

I'm not sure drop out rates at the end of the first year are due to the the universities culling. I think it's just as likely a product of a system which means people make decisions about where to go a full year ahead (or more) of going to university or scrabble around clearing for a last minute place.

A couple of my friends who dropped out of their first year admitted that they were pretty sure that the course they were starting wasn't what they actually wanted to do by the time the September came around but they felt obliged to at least give it a go (both were on highly competitive courses that required very good results).