To wonder how my child's school intends to carry out a fake baptism?

[37jonsialex]

So, i'm completely stumped by this one. A vicar is coming into my DS school and performing a 'fake baptism' on the children.
I'm not sure how this is going to work, seeing as, so show them what happens during a baptism, he will actually have to perform it.
I don't really want to make a fuss about it, so i thought i'd come here first before pestering the teachers!
Has anyone else had experience of this?

When schools go round my parents church the minister pretends to baptise a baby doll- the water isn't blessed, just tap water but the words spoken and the candle lighting are the same as a proper baptism.

he may bring a doll to show the children that way

I think most vicars use a baby doll to demonstrate what happens during a baptism.

When I saw the thread title I was going to suggest they would dunk a doll in a bath (I think we did this at Sunday school). But as he is actually involving the children maybe he'll just put some water on their heads but not actually use all the words, presumably he won't dunk them

I'd imagine that it's in the same way as they do a 'fake wedding'.

I'm not sure I understand the issue - are you concerned that the child undergoing the fake baptism will actually end up being baptised?

My dd did this in reception and all the children were given roles, including that of vicar. The children trooped down to the church and a baby doll was baptised.

A few years later dd2 did the same thing but this time it was wedding, complete with wedding car and reception back at school.

We're now wondering when the fake funeral will be held.

No, i was just curious (although it did cross my mind that perhaps the church were being sneaky!). The way they worded the letter, it sounded like it was going to be carried out on the children, but the doll makes much more sense!

Using a doll. Or by saying "Now, if this was a real baptism we would do x at this point", to make sure everyone present realises it's not.

And the fake wedding my minister led omitted the critical words. Not to mention the fact that the children were both aged 6 and it would have been illegal anyway

In any case, it's no different from any other kind of acting. I think everyone realises that actors in soap operas don't really get married, baptised etc, just because they are filmed doing so for the purposes of the drama!

I know its well-intentioned, but this does make me a bit uncomfortable as a Christian, as it seems to trivialise baptism. Why not show them a short video instead and then talk about it afterwards? I'm aware that I'm possibly being over-sensitive however, so wouldn't be up in arms about it.

IMO children also need to know that baptism isn't just something that happens to babies. I was baptised by full immersion in my mid-twenties, DH in his late teens. Some Christian traditions will only baptise people old enough to make the choice for themselves and consciously commit to Christianity, and all traditions are seeing an increase in adult baptisms as fewer and fewer people are done in infancy, so its important for children to learn about both ways of doing things.

This is quite common.

somewherewest the reason they do this rather than showing a video and talking about it is that children learn best through 'play' or role play - which is what this will involve. They will remember it. If they show a video (and I've seen some of the baptism videos) the children will get bored and without a frame of reference the children will have nothing to talk about.

They usually do it within the context of celebration and being involved and included. The children enjoy the pretend baptism, get to ask a real vicar questions and have the opportunity to reflect on what if might feel like to be involved in a celebration like that for real. The children don't get any of this by watching a video.

It depends how old the children are, but they may well talk about people doing it as adults too.

I know that I've done re-enactments of the festival of Vaisakhi before because children remember so much more if they have participated physically.

Hope that's not too long winded!

TenantOfWildfellHall

I know the reasons why role play is popular in RE, but I'm not convinced its a useful way to teach the subject. The most important lesson RE can teach children in an overwhelmingly secular society is that religion really does matter to a lot of people. I'm not convinced that role playing Christian baptism one week and the festival of Vaisakhi the next conveys that. Instead it seems to trivialise it. It also sends a message that religion is more about outward rituals than inward attitudes, which is totally wrong for Christianity and probably for most other faiths too. Roleplaying a baptism with a Tiny Tears doll isn't going to teach children a thing about the inner reality (at least for Christians) of sharing in an incarnate God's triumph over death and evil and in the promise of living forever with him. It certainly wouldn't tell a child a thing about my experience of being baptised. They'll think they know what baptism is, but actually they won't have a clue. There's also the issue of conscience for some parents and children. As a Christian I would never ask a child from an atheist or Muslim background to role play a Christian sacrament, because I don't think it would be respectful of their consciences or of the Christian ritual. Likewise I wouldn't be too keen on my children roleplaying Vaisakhi or whatever.

Surely a vicar could dowse a child in all the holy water he wants and read the whole bible out loud, and if you are not religous and dont believe in God, surely it is meaningless. I am as to how a child could be 'sneakily baptised' into the Church if you are an atheist?

Think he should use a doll though, as it saves picking who gets to take part

LMAO! No you can't sneakily baptise a child OP....believe me the church are a bit more fussy than that

somewherewest I think you need to realise that they are giving the children an education. Role-playing gives them a good idea as to the service and an understanding. They don't have to be fully immersed in the culture and depth of feeling. They're being objective.

It's the same thing with Diwali (sp?) celebrations or Eid. I don't want my children to be fully immersed in other religions, any more than those religions want to be immersed in Christianity.

I want them to know, understand and respect.

HaHa! So what happens if they're sneakily baptised? They have to start attending sunday school and get entry to heaven? Will the church police come round and demand to know why the infants weren't at their pews last Sunday? Too funny.

Learningabout things like baptism used to be part of the RE curriculum.We did it at the Church gathered round the font using a doll.
We used to do a lot on Judaism,but never did a pretend circumcision. Now there's a thought.

I think its a lovely way to teach children about baptism and other religious ceremonies. It makes it all seem much more realistic to them and is much more enjoyable to them than watching a video or listening to the teacher talk about it!

in the same way that my son went to a church and they had a 'pretend' wedding i assume its not actually done properly its just to show them and is play acting, i am assuming they will use a doll?

Oooh I did this when I was at primary school! It was a tiny village church school and didn't have a hall so we used the actual church across the road. I got to be the vicar and wore the robes and poured water over a dolls head. We even had 'parents' and 'god parents' :o

Uhh... the 'sneaky baptism' comment was a joke!

DS did a pretend wedding at school. He was a page boy and we have loads of photos of him scowling at the camera as I took yet another photo

DD's reception class trotted over to the church next door, where the priest demonstrated a baptism. DD had the honour of being the baptisee (?) They were careful to choose a child who had already been baptised!