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Original poster

To think Tax Credits should be means tested

99 replies

bittertwisted · 02/11/2011 14:57

I know I am going to come across as jealous and bitter with this one, but doing it anyway as fancy a rant, and willing to take the abuse for that privilege
My husband left me with 3 children to bring up, so far no maintenance because he is a f*wit. I am lucky enough to have a part time job that pays well, but still means my children have to go to childminder 3 nights a week and in school hols.
I find it really galling that I get the same child tax credits as women I know who get £3000 + a month in maintenance, plus private school fees. I think this is so unfair, particularly on my children who do not have their mummy to pick them up every day because I have to work.
I know they are doing nothing fraudulent, totally entitled to those benefits, but why is this fair? I am sort of in the middle because I am one of the few with a well paid part time job, what about women who have to work full time on the minimum wage, why should they get the same as women with these huge maintenance payments? I do not understand why more tax credits should not be directed to single mums in that situation.
This is not a 'single mums all have it easy living on handouts rant'. I am a single Mum and I know that is not the way it is. I just think it is incredibly unfair. And yes, I am only human, sometimes a bit jealous when I here they are off to lunch/ beauty treatments/ shopping whilst I am working then picking my kids up from the childminder.
rant over

OP posts:
Original poster
bittertwisted · 02/11/2011 15:46

Not really talking about the fairness of maintenance, or whether a woman would want to depend on an ex for it. Believe me, I know very well how that works! Just don't see why tax credits should be paid to people who get in maintenance far more than working families who are not entitled to credits earn.
Is that really an unreasonale sentiment?

OP posts:
Original poster
bittertwisted · 02/11/2011 15:49

sorry, yes, in the circumstances described only CTC, not WFTC.

OP posts:
ChasingSquirrels · 02/11/2011 15:52

I also agree, I could have written SoupDragon's post.

Bugsy2 · 02/11/2011 16:01

Bitter&twisted, I'm jealous of all wealthy SAHMs too - whether they are married, single or living in a commune!
I don't think that tweaking WTC a little bit is going to make much difference though. Life just really sucks sometimes & you can only make the best of it. No point torturing yourself with what you haven't got - just enjoy what you have. There is always someone further up & down the pecking order!!!!

Original poster
bittertwisted · 02/11/2011 16:04

Indeed, I am properly in the middle of the pecking order. I have a good part time job, that pays well. I can only imagine how I would feel if working full time. I miss so much being able to pick the children up from school, but is at least only 3 days. The system isn't fair, no benefits system is, I understand that it can't account for anomolies at both ends of the scale of extremes, it has to make sure it protects the 90% of families and children who fit in the middle

OP posts:
Bugsy2 · 02/11/2011 16:11

LOL - shall i tell you what its like working full-time!!! (rhetorical question - don't want to make you feel really depressed).
If you can work, you don't need benefits. I am really proud of myself that I have provided my DCs with a lovely home and a stable life, without having to rely on handouts from anyone.

Sure, some bits of it aren't ideal - but we are fine.
Give yourself a big old pat on the back - you are doing a great job. Having your nails done & playing tennis while the DCs are at school is boring - honestly it is!!! (If I say that often enough, I'm convinced I'll believe it Grin)

ShirleyKnot · 02/11/2011 16:15

Uh.

I work fulltime and get WFTC and CTC - they're not "handouts". Lots of people work full time in low income jobs and NEED those benefits (as we live in a country where inflation keeps going up while wages are static or dropping)

Bugsy2 · 02/11/2011 16:21

I get WTC too - I didn't mean that it was a handout. I just meant it is good to be working & supporting yourself, rather than relying on someone (could be state, ex-H, ex-P) to support you.
Sorry, use of the word "handout" was probably unwise.

ShirleyKnot · 02/11/2011 16:31

No worries. I was just about to climb on my horsie of higness then and have a lovely trot around the thread.

I would be living in DREAD if I had to rely on XSHITSPONGE to support me in any real or meaningful way. He would make my life a living hell.

ouryve · 02/11/2011 16:32

Tax credits are means tested. You have to fill out a huge form listing all your taxable income for the previous year to claim it.

Original poster
bittertwisted · 02/11/2011 17:34

I know they are means tested, but they don't take in to account maintenance, I have filled in the forms. I am not begrudging working people getting them, or non working people with children to look after. What I begreudge is people getting huge maintenance payments still getting CTC at the same rate as the person who is working full time on a low wage. That is a fact, it is the way the system works because maintenance payments are not accounted for

OP posts:
Sevenfold · 02/11/2011 17:35

surely this is more to do with parents not paying maintenance for their children, that CTC.
shouldn't more be done to make the absent parent pay for their child?

LineRunnerBonfireMother · 02/11/2011 17:47

It's called child support! FFS! Child support!

LineRunnerBonfireMother · 02/11/2011 17:48

Sorry, I appear to have had a moment, there. Smile

Minus273 · 02/11/2011 17:57

I envy this woman you know, I think the problem with maintainance is it is so easy for the absent parent to default and many view paying as giving them 100% control of the RP. So it's not black and white.

The economy is so bad and prices of essentials so high these days I think everyone seems to be at each others throats. It's sad, makes the world a worse place than it already is.

HitTheRoadJack · 02/11/2011 18:01

I'm confused.

Why isn't your ex paying child support? Pardon my ignorance, as I am not divorced/single parent but isn't that was the CSA is for? Doesn't he have a legal obligation to pay for his child/ren?

HappyCamel · 02/11/2011 18:08

But those exes, earning a fortune are paying 40% tax. If some of that finds it's way back to the kids why is that bad? If that money is then spent by the wife it keeps people in those companies in a job and 20% of it is VAT and goes back round the system again anyway.

littlemisssarcastic · 02/11/2011 18:21

This thread reminds me of when maintenance used to be taken into account wrt IS.
I was on IS for a while when DS was young. DS's father began paying maintenance through CSA.
I was allowed to keep £20 of the maintenance, and anything over £20 was taken from my IS.
This actually left me with £20 a week IS.

Then lo and behold, the maintenance wasn't paid one month. (Because my maintenance was paid monthly through CSA, not weekly) So i'd waited a month, living on £20 a week IS, and the maintenance wasn't paid.

I phoned CSA...they couldn't help me until after the 20th of the following month Shock. So if maintenance was due around January 8th (having had no money since Dec 8th), CSA wouldn't even look into it until after February 20th!!
CSA couldn't even tell me if XP was still working..it's very much a wait and see if it turns up before the 20th February, because of course they have to give the NRP's employers a certain amount of time to pay the maintenance (direct from XP's wages).
Regardless of how I survive and buy food it would seem.

I then rang IS, to explain I had no money...only for IS to tell me I wasn't entitled to any help...since I was receiving maintenance. I explained I hadn't had any maintenance that month and IS told me to contact CSA, they couldn't help me.

I rang CSA back and was told 'Think of maintenance as a bonus, you shouldn't be relying on it.' Shock

That just about says it all tbh.

Same situation...different benefits AFAIC.

Just because maintenance is paid this week, it doesn't mean it will be paid next or the week after. It is not easy to jump back onto benefits when NRP's are given considerable leeway in how long they have to pay maintenance.

gordyslovesheep · 02/11/2011 18:31

TAX credits are means tested and based on earnings - maintainance is not an earning - it's a father supporting his children

Tax credits are to enable you to work and pay childcare - two seperate things

I work - I claim TX - they pay for nursery and CM and holiday care

I get maintance - it pays for shoes, clothes, hobbies, etc for OUR kids

I get wages - they pay my mortgage

I pay tax - hence the tax credits Grin

ChasingSquirrels · 02/11/2011 18:53

tax credits aren't means tested on "earnings" they are means tested on "income with exceptions".
that includes dividends and interest - which are not "earned income".
tax credits aren't to enable you to work and pay childcare, they are to enable you to have a "living" income and to encourage you to do that through work.

If as a couple you had a certain level of income you wouldn't get tax credits, but as a single parent you might - that has to be an anomaly in the system (of which there are loads).

Sevenfold · 02/11/2011 19:05

littlemisssarcastic thanks for your post, it has helped me to understand something I know nothing about.

RedHelenB · 02/11/2011 19:12

How many single parents are getting 3000 a month maintenance though?

If maintenance was taken as earnings then my kids would really be living hand to mouth despite me working.

gordyslovesheep · 02/11/2011 19:22

Exactly Redhelen - we aren't exactly flush as a family as it is - if I lost TX - even WITH maintance I couldn;t afford to work - my childcare bills are too high

when we where a couple we didn't qualify and I worked and ALL my wages paid nursery fees - that was do able because of having two incomes. - I didn't want to be a lone parent and I want to work - why penalise me and my kids?

ChasingSquirrels · 02/11/2011 19:25

but why should someone else pay for you?

gordyslovesheep · 02/11/2011 19:28

they don't - my TAX credits pay - you don't :)

would you rather 'somebody else' paid my income support and housing benefit, and free school meals and free perscriptions etc?

and me pay nothing into the system?