AIBU to think that mothers need to be given the real stats behind SIDS risk?

[clarabellabunting]

Watching Anne Diamond on TV this morning, she heavily implied that pretty much every single case of SIDS/cot death in the last year was in a smoking household. Does anyone know where she got this from and how I can get access to statistics like this?

This made me think about the stats we are given on SIDS and how much more statistical evidence should be provided to mothers so that we can make a realistic judgement about risk.

I would like to know what percent of deaths were babies whose parents were following ALL the recommendations. What percent were babies sleeping on their front?

Anne Diamond said that 2/3 of SIDS cases were in co-sleeping situations but then went onto say she didn't know how many of these were on sofas. Can stats like this be broken down?

We are often told the 'risk factors' for SIDS for us to avoid but are not given the numbers behind this. I wonder if they do not provide this because they don't want to 'blame' the bereaved parents who did not follow recommendations (especially because there seems to be no proven causal relationship between any of the risk factors and SIDS, just correlation).

Can you tell that I have a small baby and am thus obsessed with avoiding SIDS at the moment??? I think that even though the numbers are so small now compared to 20 years ago, the risk of SIDS still looms large in new mothers' minds and knowing how low/high the risk is for those who follow all the recommendations would be a big help in allaying our fears. Surely this information exists somewhere???

Knowing that 99% of SIDS (if that's what it is) happens in smoking households would be a good bit of info to spread if only to calm the fears of non-smoking mothers.

Bollocks to the co-sleeping bit, unless she is confusing that with accidental falling asleep on sofas. That is dangerous misinformation, as instead of telling people co-sleeping is safe if done properly so people actually do that, exhausted parents struggle to stay awake and fall asleep in innappropriate situations with babies.

This was on the Wright Stuff? I wasn't really happy about the way she was talking about o-sleeping either. The panel were talking about accidentally rolling on babies and suffocating them. But surely suffocating isn't SIDS. I thought SIDS was when no cause of death could be found.

FSID's website says that cosleeping with a baby under 4 months is especially dangerous - it's in the same list as smoking etc as risks... I never knew that and have been cosleeping since the start...

SIDS statistics

Above link has some useful information and breaks down the cause/effect relationship a little more clearly. Yes, smoking is one of the biggest avoidable risks whether that's the mother smoking prior to birth or the infant being in a smoking household.

fsid.org.uk/page.aspx?pid=406

... and sometimes we fall asleep while feeding in the wee small hours, so she is on her side, not back.... I worry sooooo much about this!

she lost a child to SIDs so its something she feels very passionate about, i didnt see her on the wright stuff today,

more info should def be out there, and from what i remember she works with a SIDs charity, so she may have got all her info from there, but im not 100%

SIDS is a western phenomenon isn't it? I'd like to know more about why that is eg co-sleeping in some societies is the norm, but no SIDS!
I have kind of heard this anecdotally but don't know enough about it and the whys and wherefores.

The "risks" of co-sleeping need to be made clearer. As I understand it, the risk to a breastfed, intentionally co-sleeping baby is the same (or even less) than that of a baby sleeping in a cot in the parent's room, but this gets lumped in with the risk to formula fed babies who accidentally sleep on sofas or with fathers.

FSID even produce a leaflet on safe co-sleeping for breastfeeding mothers - www.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Baby_Friendly/Leaflets/3/sharingbedleaflet.pdf

I think a complete breakdown of stats would be useful for helping people like me who have a Hobson's choice between 2 risks. My 2 month old has silent reflux so can only sleep on his front, co-sleep or have his cot propped up, except it has to be propped so far that he can fling himself forward and still end up on his front, assuming he doesn't brain himself on the cot first.

Realistically though, I can imagine that it would be a nightmare trying to publish stats in a way that is clear and accessible, simply because of the likely crossovers, eg; baby in a smoking house, sleeps on back, no dummy, baby in a non smoking house sleeps on front, no dummy etc etc which would obscure the data and make it impossible to clearly state 34% of SIDS cases slept on their front or whatever.

Tbh I don't think it would necessarily help that much to reduce worry as there will always be a percentage of cases that don't fit known patterns, so I can imagine that seeing that 25% of the parents did everything 'right' and their child still died would increase worry if anything.

She talks bollocks the information on who website doesn't state that nearly all cases of SIDS have a smoker in the house hold,

Alot of ways the statistics are grouped together can be confusing, I saw statistics that put co sleeping as having the child in the same room not just in the same bed.

However information given states that it is better not to smoke and the best place for a baby to sleep is in it's own bed in the mothers room

They give advice on safe co sleeping the same way as the give advice on ff , if you are going to do it follow guidelines set out, but at the end of the day bf and having the baby in it's own bed is best and safer

Look at the webchat MN did a while ago with a sleep research expert. I'll try to find a link in a minute.

Side sleeping is okay if it's after feeding, because generally they will be so close to you that they can't possibly roll onto their fronts. The reason side sleeping is unsafe is it's hard to stop them rolling without propping them up somehow, and most things that parents would use to prop them up are a suffocation risk.

Cosleeping isn't more dangerous under any age, it's just that SIDS is higher under 4 months of age.

We co- slept with DD, DC2 very soon and king size bed arrived today as intend to do the same again, but with a bit more space!
If certain precautions are taken, it is safe. eg no pillows and duvets around the baby.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/980577-Live-webchat-with-sleep-expert-Dr-Helen-Ball-Tuesday-15th

And this is the post with stats on it.

When I had DS1 (now in his mid-20s) we were told that laying a child on its back practically guaranteed that it would snuff it. Ideally he should be on his side, but whenever I tucked him up he would manage to flip over onto his back and that was the worst thing ever.

12 years later I was severely berated for failing to lay DS4 on his back as putting him in what first aiders know as the recovery position was tantamount to deliberately smothering him. Actually the only one I nearly did smother was DS2, as the nurse was horrified to find me feeding him on my side in bed, and propped me up on a chair with the baby on a pillow across my knees; so I fell asleep and dropped forward. My boob was slightly larger than DS2's head when he was new so the results were very nearly quite mournful.

Well they've all survived so far. Must have been lucky I guess.

Was also told I must eat lots of liver and spinach when expecting DS1, but that's a whole 'nother story...

(This is all what we were told by medical experts btw, I'm discounting the amateur expertise of MILs and the like )

Thank you BertieBotts - answered all my qustions!

The thing is, the stats and studies done on this all take retrospective information (ie. Collect info on factors such as whether somebody in the household smokes, baby put on front, co sleeping, etc. ). It's not the sort of thing where you could say to a group of parents 'right, half of you put the baby to sleep on it's front, half on their back'. For obvious reasons, that would be unethical and nobody would take part either.

That means that it's not true, controlled studies that are making up the stats, so it's just not possible to break down the statistics much further than they already are. There are so many other lifestyle factors that complicate - parents that smoke may be smoking outside everytime, vs. Parents smoking in the same room as the baby. A dad that smokes, a mum that doesn't. A dad that smokes and in that family, they cosleep, vs. A dad that smokes and in that family, they put the baby to sleep on it's front. Do you see what I mean? It's impossible to break it down in these scenarios. That's why all that us possible is to give risk factors.

PiousPrat I see what you're saying about overlapping factors and how difficult it would be to come up with useful stats about individual risk factors.

I suppose the fact that the SIDS rate is so low (about 300/year) also makes it hard to come up with useful stats?

What I don't understand though is that we know all of the risk factors 'correlate' with SIDS but surely only one thing actually causes it? We just don't know which. Or is that being too simplistic?

I would like to know if that stat AD quoted about almost all the cases last year being in smoking households is true...

My ex-boss was a biochemist by trade and had a co-worker who had spent most of her working life studying SIDS and its causes. She attended post mortems on babies who had died unexpectedly while sleeping. The most significant factor she found was actually overheating. Not smoking, cosleeping, lying on their back, lying on their front, etc. The trend for swaddling may be a cause of this overheating, preventing the baby from removing their blanket(s), while keeping as much heat in as possible.

I think it's really unfortunate that so many parents are scared into not doing what comes naturally. There's nothing wrong with a baby lying on its front, or back for that matter. And there's no reason you should force your baby to sleep in a cot/basket/crib unless you've been drinking, smoking, taking drugs or are on medication that causes drowsiness.

I'm the most unparanoid mother ever though! I even leave my daughter on the bed on her own. She's never fallen off but has been able to climb out safely since she was 10 months old.

Yes Clara, the low rates thing was mentioned by Helen Ball in the webchat IIRC. It's an interesting read :)

A friends baby died of SIDS last yer. They are a nonsmoking household and baby was in cot on its back in correct position

Well the stats given by botts further up state that the risk is 1 in 2000 that is increased 5x if there is a smoker in the house and 20x for sofa sleeping so I don't think it can be as simple as saying nearly all SIDS have a smoker in the house

Thanks BertieBotts. Reading through that webchat now - very interesting.

There is something about swaddling in the book Three in a Bed - I think it could potentially be problematic too. There's a lot of focus on getting babies to sleep longer too rather than letting them do it when they are ready which could be concerning. But I have no idea if either of these things do have an effect. I know I take FSID's stuff with a pinch of salt and prefer to know the actual reason why something is advised against. The dummies "research" was a case in point. And they seem awfully biased against co-sleeping.

I thought SIDS rates dropped off massively when Back to Sleep was brought in?

That is awful and scary Chundle. Perhaps PiousPrat is right and knowing that it can happen to people who have followed everything will just make us worry more and take away the illusion of control that we get from following the guidelines.

It is hard to find consistent stats and advice.My dd is 8 months and i had abig age gap so was trying to swot up on the latest advice.I never actually found anything concrete.
The problem is that people will always say "oh we co slept and ds was ok" or "i smoked around my babies they are all grown up now" We need to be given clear concise recommendations with stats to bsck it up and then we can make informed decisions based upon this and what others have experienced.
A senior childrens nurse warned me against co sleeping but was doing it herself-confusin or what.