AIBU to want to keep my SIL at arms length.

[rockabilly]

The low down. SIL and DH are not close. They do not call each other, but are happy to see each other when they do. My SIL is not married or has no kids and is in her 40's. We live at opposite ends of the country to them and when they come over, it's usually for a week+. DH's mom and pop are very welcome in my house and my 3 kids love them. The problem is that now they have started to bring SIL with them as she moved closer to them. When she is at my house she will constantly tell my kids off (for things I wouldn't) and seems to have a draconian approach (think Victorian Governess) attitude towards them. We invited them over for Xmas and she came too and spent the whole time telling me/ my kids how spoilt they are and kept making negative comments about their presents and how I went over the top. TBH, my kids really didn't have a lot of things compared to other kids I know, but I really buy into the whole magic of Christmas and all my kids are under 5. . She spoilt the whole day. When she is around either at my place or PIL's we all have to pussy foot around her and walk on egg shells so no one upsets her. MIL doesn't want to upset her daughter for any reason and always takes her side. The other thing that I think is that she gossips to MIL about me and makes snide comments as I have noticed that MIL's attitude towards me sours when we are all together. They also pass glances to each other and raise their eyebrows when I say something or have bought something and will say something passive aggressive like "lucky for some" or "did you ask DH if you could buy that" or something similar. FYI, my SIL did not send my kids a present or want to know them until now and is now all over them like a rash. She also really gets my back up as it seems she's circling like a hawk and then as soon as I slip up slightly she comes steaming down on me. She frowns and then turns to me and says "Err, XXX, why did you do XYZ" like I am a naughty schoolgirl. By the way we are the same age.

We are about to move and will live a lot closer to them. One of the reasons why I am stressing out is because I would be very happy to spend more time with the PIL's but I do not want the SIL around. I am happy to have her over sometimes, but not all the time. She spoils things and I think she is toxic. I think she bad mouths me because I see looks between them and she's the instigator. I also have heard her say really vile things about other relatives in their family that I would never say about my worst enemy, so I am pretty sure I get the same treatment out of ear shot. I get along with my own siblings partners and we have a relationship where we do not get in each others faces. When we see each other we are pleased to do so. I don't see why I have to make myself miserable in my own house. I am not scared of her, but I am scared of upsetting my PILs and causing a problem amongst us. They would take her side even in the wrong. Usually I am a super assertive person and would not let anyone upset me without giving it back plenty. I'd never let a friend or one of my relies treat me and my family in this way, so why is she getting away with it?

AIBU to want to have an at-arms- length relationship with her and not want to have her round all the time when PIL's are there? Any tips for dealing with her?

What is your husbands relationship with her like? has she been this negative from childhood? Did she choose never to marry and have children, or was it something that just never happened for her?

I'd never let a friend or one of my relies treat me and my family in this way

Sarcasm is going to be your best friend.

Next time she says:"Err, XXX, why did you do XYZ" say something like "do share your wisdom on XYZ" then you can proceed to tell her why XYZ your way is the better way!

I also have heard her say really vile things about other relatives see, I'd pull her up on that and I'd just have to counter it with a positive comment about who ever she was slagging off.

With the voice of concern, you can sideline MIL and ask "why is SIL so angry all the time? isn't she very well/got a lot of worries?" etc - and make it sound like you are concerned about her but at the same time you have planted the seed in MILs mind.

Life is far too short to have negative people in your life.

Can't you just take SIL to one side and say something like, "Look, we love to see you, it's been a long time coming and you're finally getting to know your niece and nephew, but this sniping has to stop. It's obvious and it's getting on our nerves. PILs are a big part of our family and if you want to be too then that would be great but not like this....

You have my sympathies as this sounds like a very difficult situation.

It seems perhapes the PIL and the SIL come as a package when they visit you from across the country.
Maybe when you move and are nearer it wont be such a big deal when they visit and SIL wont have to come. You can test the water with that idea by inviting just the PIL for a Sunday lunch at first and see if this works out.

I would suggest the SIL never comes to yours for Christmas ever again if thats her attitude.

I do admire LyingWitchs idea about simply telling her what the problem is in those very words she gives as an example. That would take some courage indeed, I know I would find it hard. However if there are some clear examples of SIL's negative comments/actions, then go for it and list them to her with DH present and say "SIL - you cant be doing that anymore, its very distressing".

Has anyone here on mumsnet talk ever done that? Actually said to someone toxic "its got to stop" ? Did it work out? Did the toxic person mend their ways? Or did it end the relationship?

I am always happy to let a friend or my own close family know if they have crossed a line, but my inlaws? Thats a different story.

I'd be interested to know of anyone has tried straight talking as well.

Surely it must be worth a try - I am sure that entering into subterfuge, suggestion and counter-sniping at MIL cant be the way forward - that will just make it even more complicated.

I'd go with the straight talking as the first option.

Can you let DH deal with it since it is his sister? How does he feel about it all?

I have actually - with my SIL. We don't get on; icily polite from both sides. She issues invitations knowing that I'll refuse them (politely) but we dance the dance... I have a niece and nephew. I never leave her out of Christmas, birthdays, anything else that the family is having.

We're poles apart and I don't like how she's treated my mum, it has coloured my view somewhat but even without that, we're never going to be close. I've just said that we should accept that and carry on politely. It's been a huge weight lifted.

OP... What about firing your DH into action and getting him to say something to SIL in your company? You don't want MIL there because she'll stick up for her but something needs to be said and she is your husband's sister so let him tackle her perhaps?

Agree that DH needs to tackle this head on...and you need to stand up for yourself more....dont let her tell your DC off! Just say "Ignore Auntie X please, she's not Mummy and she hasn't any right to tell you off."

I would.

Generally the case that DHs don't want to get involved in this sort of thing. I would take control and say something yourself.

Thats a sweeping statement Katisha and not true.

I am going on the many threads of this nature I have read here!
Of course there are exceptions.
But to be honest I think men (I AM SPEAKING GENERALLY) are more likely to want the easy life option.

I totally agree that ideally the son of the MIL should address the issue properly. But but but. They have had years of the woman and have developed a coping strategy which is to let stuff go. They are off at work and not there to see the constant undermining etc.

WHile I totally agree that DHs should step up to the mark, if they don't, then I don't think the woman should be helpless. She should speak up for herself.

Sorry I meant brother of the SIL.

(ALthough it's often a MIL issue as well.)

She sounds absolutely vile. However, I would give her benefit of the doubt as she may not know she is doing these things. Maybe write her a letter telling her the things you have told us that upset you? If she doesn't change then I would cut her off. Seriously.

Oh, and someone on MN posted about "... families where the entire family panders to one unpleasant individual". This is a very accurate description of the situation in which you find yourself.

She sounds like my sister. Absolutely no idea how to relate to DC, sets them up to fail, everyone tiptoeing round her.

And yes, I did finally blow after a lifetime of politely seething, when she AGAIN attacked my DC at a family celebration. And it did have the desired effect, and she and my mother are both now VERY CAREFUL when we are all together.

The trouble with people like this is that they can dish it out but they can't actually take it. And it's the usual things isn't it? They feel insecure and inferior so they counter that by bullying everyone else. But it's not your or your DCs' job to fix their issues.

I think the good old 'gosh that sounded rude, did you mean it to?' is a brilliant first step with these sort of people. My sister is also single in her 40s and that is no coincidence I don't think.

I mean, who do these people,think they are? They can go around spewing their bile to all and sundry with no come-back as the rest of us are too polite to say anything? Is that fair?

When she is in your house, you are in charge, she can't decide she's the queen of everything. Also, wherever your DCs are, you and your DH are in charge.

So, if she tells your DCs off, firm, calm voice "SIL, it's not your place to tell my children off, if you have a problem with their behaviour, talk to me or DH."

When she says something vile about other relatives, "I've always liked XXX, I'd prefer if you didn't insult them in front of me."

If anyone asked if I asked DH's permission to buy something, I'd laugh in their face and ask them if I'd accidentally fallen asleep and woken up in 1953...

Passive agressive comments are often best dealt with by acting like you assume they meant them to be nice. Really annoys people who are trying to wind you up if you refuse to be wound up.

Really good advice, LydiaWickham. Gonna pinch some of those strategies for dealing with my own vile SIL

'gosh that sounded rude, did you mean it to?' love it, simple but effective

no suggestions that havent already been made op, maybe there is a bit of jealousy of you and what you have it doesnt excuse her vile behaviour though

I agree with Helenthemadox ...having been/still in a situation like yours. I was really surprised at quite how effective one sharp comment from me worked with my SIL.
She's also a shadow to PIL, turns up, acts moody, wont speak etc etc...this has been going on for years & I just ignore it. (She is in her 30s)
At a recent family get together, she was behaving the same as usual, ignores me, doesn't make eye contact etc. An hour in, she offers to help in the kitchen to which I replied 'No thank you'. Polite but not said in a friendly way....well it worked a treat, she wound her neck in & was lovely for the rest of the day.
I think some people need to be put in their place a bit sometimes and often it doesn't take much to achieve that.

However you decide to do this, I would advise you to sort it out soon, as you are going to be in closer proximity.

For years, I had a slightly similar problem with my SIL (in fact, we have threads with almost identical titles). Alot of my SIL's problems stem from the fact that MIL panders to her and expects everyone else to do likewise. I ended up feeling like I had little control over my life (whenever it concerned SIL in any way) and SIL trying to adversely affect my relationship with DD.

Don't let this happen to you. One sharp comment, highlighting her manipulation might do the trick. Thereafter, be firm - your PIL and SIL aren't joined at the hip and you don't have to invite them all together. And don't let anyone manipulate you or guilt-trip you either (this seems to be commonplace when there has been a certain unbalanced family status quo).

It's tricky with in-laws but you have to nip it in the bud, otherwise it could get worse. It's your home, your family, your rules. Good luck.