To ask, how do you challenge a friend about their DCs behaviour without falling out with your friend?

[Cherriesarelovely]

I am talking about one DC in particular who is a very longstanding friend of my DC and I am a close friend of her DM. Both of our children are 8. My friends DC is very challenging and this situation has been going on for a very long time but has come to a head in recent weeks.

My DC had a small birthday party a week ago. Friends DC totally dominated the party with constant whining, demanding and tantrumming. Complaining if others won games and then when she won throwing her prize across the room and declaring it "rubbish".

Not wanting to get cross at my DCs party I took other DC aside and talked to her calmly and firmly about her behaviour but it continued. When her other parent arrived (I'm less close to this parent than the DCs mum) the horrible behaviour continued now witnessed by her parent and parent sighed and almost laughed.

When they left my DC was really upset about the friends behaviour and said it had ruined the party, it kind of had. I felt like calling my friend and telling her but I couldn't bring myself to...feel so gutless about this. This is not the first time this DCs behaviour has spoiled events and I am getting really, really fed up with it but I am also fed up with my inability to approach my friend about it.

Is there any "good" way to approach this subject without a huge falling out?

After about 5yrs DCs choose their own friends and it sounds as if your DC isn't a friend, they just happen to be thrown together. I would just start seeing your friend with adults only. I had to do this with a very good friend-our DS were just 3 weeks apart in age but they simply didn't like each other.

I am still a very good friend with the mother but the DSs haven't seen each other since they were 6 yrs old.

Just wanted to say how great MN is at giving advice in this sort of situation. I forget it sometimes when I read really unreasonable posts!

I'm not sure you can, tbh. My friend's DS is 'challenging' () too. She has actually asked me NOT to discipline him because although clearly my method of disciplining works on my DS it doesn't work on her DS as he just looks crushed and it breaks her heart and she can't handle it. She will take care of the disciplining herself....

Hmm...

Well, I now do not have him over on his own, and will not allow my DSs to go to hers on their own (we used to help each other out with babysitting etc). I also try to catch up with her while they are at school now, rather than with all of them. Her DS and my DS1 are younger than yours, so this is going to get more difficult as they get to the age where it is more common for them to go to friends' houses without parents. Problem is the DSs adore each other and my DS's behaviour deteriorates when they are together. I'm in the process of encouraging other friendships at the school, but it is a small school so not that big a choice of boys!!!

Some parents are well aware that their kids are challenging but are also aware that they are never likely to do anything about it themselves, either because they cba or they feel so useless and helpless themselves in the face of it that they resign themselves to tolerating the behaviour and condemn everyone around them to suffering it.

I've known both types. They're usually easy to get on with and make lots of friends, and will talk about how awful their DC's behaviour is, act willing to hear any suggestions, but do nothing at all, again either because they cba or they convince themselves it wouldn't work with their child.

There are usually lots of threats bandied about, but never acted upon. Also lots of blind-eye turning and 'oh, did he really do that? Oh x, (whining voice) that's so naughty.' Meanwhile x emits evil grin and carries on with the devilment.
I have a good friend like this, and I used to take it upon myself to make earnest and worthy suggestions, try to make her see she had the power to change things - only when she was bleating again that she didn't know what to do. I ended up pretty much avoiding contact between her DSes and DS1, especially when DD came along and was getting metal cars deliberately zoomed at her and wooden bricks chucked.
These boys are now in 6th form and last I saw them they were telling her to fuck off out of their rooms and calling her an old hag. She still pulls the same pained expression and says they're awful, she doesn't know what to do with them.

I don't think you can change anyone's parenting style, especially if the child has got to the age of 8 and still no lightbulb moment. Any change would have to come from them and only you know whether this person's friendship is worth letting your DD suffer for.

You can't really challenge your friend. A parent witnessed terrible behaviour at a party and didn't remove their child - that is the root of the problem.

I have had a friend's child pick up a toy of DS's and throw it across the room. It went unchallenged so the child did it again with another toy. Again with a third and fourth toy - my friend didn't say anything so I told the child not to throw the toys again. One was actually broken and my DS was mortified. Some of it is down to parenting and some isn't. I take a hard line with destruction of toys - if either of my kids damage a toy by mistreating it, I put it straight in the bin and tell them why. They never damage toys now and they treat them like gold. My DS in particular is not well behaved in general but I put a huge amount of effort into helping him to behave properly. My friend - her DS's behaviour is naturally about as bad as my DS's - but the difference is that she does nothing at all about it. She just lets him do it. At her house, most of the toys are broken because she just lets her DS do it.

In your position, I would limit contact with the children, see your friend without the kids. Make the birthday party school friends only or something like that next year.

If you really have to have this child alone at your house again, I suggest that you take her aside once the parent has left her and tell the child that you have rules of behaviour in your house. If she does not keep to the rules, you will ring her mother or father and ask for her to be collected.

Mean it and keep to it.

I've been in the same situation as chitchat - some parents just cannot watch their darlings child's crushed face because someone has called them on their behaviour.

This is a good time for 'my house, my rules'. When at yours be clear what you expect and enforce this. Unfortunatly elsewhere, other times you may have to leave the mum to it (or not as the case may be!).

Could you try ignoring the behaviour? - so if she tantrums, whinges, ignore and carry on game and if she throws pick up object put it away without saying anything and carry on?

I also agree with the above that it sounds like your DD is getting fed up with this behaviour and will make the decision for you!

Thank you so much all. Have only just been able to get back to the thread.
Anyway, just to clarify, my DC and this DC have been friends since practically birth, always at nursery together, in the same class etc. They have had periods of being very close and periods of being not so close but they are mostly pretty good friends. By and large the other DC does not behave too badly at school (although it seems as though she is starting to lately) so in that context they usually rub along ok. As I said in the OP this DC is usually very badly behaved when she is at home or playing at ours or out and about.

There were further developments today which i wont bore you all with but I simply could not bear it any longer. I tried to call my friend but there was no answer so I sat down and wrote an honest email. It was really hard to do. I hate confronting things like this but equally was not prepared and let my DD get walked all over. In the email I did try to stick to the point ie I didn't say "God, you are both crap parents and we have been thinking this for years"!!!

Anyway, I then sent a text to say that I really wanted to talk with her about the Dcs but as she wasn't in I had emailed her. I am sort of cringeing but in a weird way i feel a bit liberated.

Thank you all once again. Whatever happens I feel like I did what I had to do however uncomfortable it might be.

Very brave of you. What were the further developments?

lambethlil you are SO right. Your post made me want to cry. So many sensible people on MN.

Dd also had a friend like this (she was still having tantrums at 10 if she didn't get her way). The friendship thankfully waned when dd decided she didn't want to have to do everything her friend's way. These things included dieting and dying her hair at age 10.

Dd is now nearly 17 and her ex friend is an orange, spoilt brat with bad extensions.

No response yet manicbmc really not sure what the response will be but absolutely could not let it continue any longer. Have agonised about it for days now. Her parents do know that she is naughty (along with her DB) but as one poster said there are lots of really extreme, crazy threats (which are clearly not going to be carried out-the kids are well aware of this) and then just a general tolerance and alot of eye rolling. My friend is more on the ball than her DP who is literally a wet blanket.

I will be sad if my friend and I fall out completely because aside from the issue with the DCs she is lovely and I would be friends with her even if we hadn't met through the kids. However, I am a very tolerant person and I very, very rarely fall out with people so to feel as if I had to make a stand I knew it must be serious!

Hope she sees sense and asks for your help rather than falling out.

hee hee manicbmc! Love the story about the orange girl!

You've had loads of good advice about how to speak to your friend so this is about kids that spoil parties. A friend is a SN teacher and says at parties he goes into professional mode. His advice is to have a ratio where you can manage the behaviour and continue the party so the child will not disrupt or get attention. Make sure your helpers are not woolly types, so presumably not the parents, and you can have one of them do one to one marking of the disruptive child.

He reckons it works, luckily we haven't had to find out yet.

Hi all, quick update. I received an extremely vitriolic email from my friend this morning, it simply couldn't be any more unpleasant. Basically, they have spoken to their DC, she says she did nothing wrong at the party the parent saw none of the things I refer to so they can only assume we are lying. Why would we????

They have already begun discussing it with various people at school to garner their opinions. Their child is in fact the victim because she was being bullied at one point by another child in the class and this behaviour is a direct result of that etc etc. Lots of "I thought I knew you but now i realise I never knew you at all type comments.

On one level it is pretty devastating but on another level it is confirmation that we were never going to see eye to eye on this and the situation was going to get worse. It's going to be incredibly awkward at the school gates that's for sure.

I think that you will just have to accept the friendship is over. Don't get drawn into arguments. Just tell them that you are sorry they feel that way and leave it at that.

Oh dear.

I think "I'm sorry you feel that way." and leave it at that is a good plan.

Just don't invite the cild again to anything. Agree with others that saying anything could damage the friendship. Maybe you could see your friend while the kids are at school??

Thank you all of MN. You have provided a safe, objective space for me to air my feelings over this horrible situation and it has helped alot to know that I am not alone in how I feel about this.

Just in from work and straight on MN

She has shown her true colours really. Her precious child can do no wrong . I had similar with the mother of the orange child who then accused my dd of bullying (so far from the truth it is quite unbelievable).

The other mothers will soon see her child's behaviour and realise who is deluded here.

Oh dear she really is deluded.

Any child would deny behaving that way and it always becomes a problem for the child when their parent believes them over other adults.

Why people think that an adult would make this up is beyond me.