To think that a university student should be doing their own research for a dissertation?

[ivykaty44]

Not your parent?

This parent is telephoning relevant places on behalf the student to ask whether they have the material needed - surely the student should be using a telephone and calling these places.

AIBU

Sitting in on the interview is a totally different thing, though.

Imperial - it's not that I think it's unethical necessarily, what you describe. I just think it tends to be problematic from parents, because of the nature of that relationship. A peer or teacher is better placed IMO. But you know your own children; it may well be it works for you and them. I just reckon it can do more harm than good for most people.

I'm a teacher and have an MA, too, though in a totally unrelated area.

My daughter was studying Combined Studies and nobody else was studying the same combination of subjects. She could choose modules from a lot of different sections. Because of that, she didn't have friends on her course, but from her accommodation instead. She didn't have anyone to talk to about the essays etc so would talk to me about them. I found the topics interesting. I'd read them and say "I don't understand what you mean there - do you think you need to expand on that?" Sometimes she'd say "No, that's clear enough" and other times she'd go into more detail.

When you're locked up in a room writing long essays, it can be difficult to get a perspective. When you've written 13,000 and it's meant to be 10,000 it's useful to have someone spend an hour reading it and saying "You've said that three times now" or "What do you mean by that?"

We would look at each other's essays at school and at university and it was never considered to be cheating. That's all I was doing for her.

I get what you're saying. I'm just saying why I have reservations about parents in general getting into their adult childrens' studies.

Again, I'd repeat the advice my friend's mum gives her DD - the mum is an academic in the DD's subject, and says it would be bad for her to try to help her DD with essays. Not because she's not a good teacher, but because the DD would ultimately lose out in her view. And I tend to agree.

But then, I guess necessarily the parents and children for whom this works don't really show up on the system, because it works! So it may be more commonly a good idea than I think.

I have to say too - my dad has a PhD and thinks he knows how to tell me how to write mine. He was very keen on the whole 'you need to explain this bit more' when reading my undergrad essays. With the result that I wrote bad, over-elaborated essays more suited to a non-specialist's level of knowledge. So that makes me nervous about the idea that an outsider has the right perspective on what needs elaborating and what doesn't. But obviously, I may well be letting my experience colour my judgment.

I hope my daughter wouldn't say that, EllaDee. I would never approach her about it, she'd call or come home to discuss it.

I'm sure she wouldn't - I was trying to explain why I'm a bit biased!

I didn't at all mean to knock what you do. And I've now dug this hole so deep I can't see daylight, haven't I?!

What MillyR said. In my book, ringing the library to see if they have a certain book does not count as part of the intellectual process: it's the kind of information that a) could equally well be given by the tutor or a friendly librarian or a mate you pass in the corridor b) is not going to affect the argument in any way. When I did my PhD my parents happened to have some relevant books on their own shelves. They lent them to me. Why should they not?

We discuss PhD students' work in seminar; as a member of staff from a different department my viewpoints may not always be relevant or beneficial- but that is also part of the learning process: to learn to sort useful advice from less useful.

The writing only sets down what's been discovered in the research!

Except since dissertation is final year, then it should be doing a LOT more than "setting out what has been discovered". It should be analysing the results, drawing parallels with existing research, evaluating the findings, making recommendations, etc, etc. Just setting out what has been discovered won't get the student very good marks, really.

My opinion - it depends WHAT the information is that the mum is phoning up asking for. If the student has left a list of publications/data that she needs, and the mum is simply tracking it down then I don't think that is a problem. If the student has given the mum a list of questions to be answered and a list of people to ask the questions to - well, again I don't think that is a HUGE deal, since the intellectual work is still the students. Anything further than that, and I would start to be concerned.

I think it does depend as well on whether the mum is really organizing the work too (which does sound like it in the (too brief!) OP).

With me, I've just worked something out which had passed by the other people who've published on this text (or maybe they just didn't give a toss, it is possible ). I did it by rigorously checking through the material. In a way, yes, that is not 'original scholarship' and not terribly exciting. I know that. But all the same, being motivated to go to all the right places and ask all the right questions has led me to something that contradicts the published research (in a minor, boring way ...).

It just depends what this mum is doing. If her child has sent her with a list of people to ring, fine. If it's mum going the extra mile to recognize that overlooked or original material can be found - hmm, not sure, that does seem a bit out of line to me.

I did the same degree as my daughter and finished the year before her.
I helped her- not with her dissertation so much, just read and corrected being the grammar Nazi that I am- but she was holding down two jobs too and was becoming very depressed and low with it. Mainly just discussed approaches she could use, arguments, critical analysis and so on...that and the structure of her assignments, like paragraph spacing, keeping it tight and so on.
I basically did what the lecturers should have been doing with their students but being as they were either unavailable or uninterested much of the time, she came to me. Because i'm her mum and I love her and wanted her to do her best.
She is a wonderful and incredibly special human being- not saying that cos she's mine, her sisters a selfish mare mostly but I love her too- and I'm glad i was able to help.

I, too, was glad I could help.

My daughter worked incredibly hard and has been close to the edge many times. I was happy to act as a sounding board at times - usually after she'd locked herself in her room for a month working and couldn't see whether she was on completely the wrong track.

She inherited a problem with depression from my ex husband (family problem) and I was desperate that she shouldn't suffer with it in the way she had in the past

If she'd been the kind of person to leave everything to the last minute, I wouldn't have done it.

I feel a bit sad that parents need to get invovled in the'r dcs' academic output and wonder if this is a new phenomenon brought about by the expansion of higher education without an accopmanying tutorial system that supports students withoin their department. I wonder how many Oxbridge students rely on parental invovolvement in essay writing and feedback?

sorry about the types in my last post - it's too late fo me and I've had 3/4 bottle of wine!

I suppose the student could be deaf and therefore unable to use a standard telephone. In that case as long as they were doing everything else then I wouldn't have an issue with it.

I am a bit confused as to what the parent did.

How is asking if you can provide information doing research? Unless all that is going to be reported is company X can provide this information

crystalglasses I'm with you.

When I did my degree, parents actually doing the work/research/being heavily involved was unheard of. The students who weren't capable of doing the work themselves just dropped out. It's no wonder employers are complaining about poor basic skills in graduates if their parents have carried them through their GCSEs, A Levels and even their degrees!

Most students that contact us do so by email and get a fair bit of assistance that way, rare for a student to use a telephone to contact us.

Gosh, well if they normally contact you by email, then that's surely what the student in this case should have been doing?

WHETHER THEY HAVE THE MATERIAL NEEDED, at what point did this change into having some one else do the work for them ? In my experience of calling to various sources there have been situations where I have been put on hold and passed around various sections for well over 1/2 an hour and up to nearly an hour (the near hour was a local authority). If a student is doing this on a mobile it will cost an awful lot and if some one offered to do this by ringing on their landline then I think this is acceptable - the OP never said that they were actually doing any work for the student, only finding out if there was any point in contacting them for info.

In my case/situation, the student is studying where I am and her dissertation is being conducted in an area miles and miles away, where she used to live and where her mother lives now.

Many students will chose to do their study in their home town but are miles away and will go home after xmas to collect their data.

My girl wants to get some data from health areas and school areas. Its is a small community and her mother works in education so she is phoning around a few places to see if they will participate.

I have no problem with that as a supervisor. I can see how much work the student is putting in.Im sure with RL research, contacts would be used to make sure there is enough data.

If a student is doing this on a mobile it will cost an awful lot

I guess that is why most students use email to contact, and sometimes the emails is being sent to other contacts at the same time - one email and 15 contacts isn't unusual from a student enquiry.

I got my mum to call in a few political/media contacts she had for mine in order that I could contact them for relevant quotes and opinions and get a slightly quicker response than a query out of the blue may have recieved - but not doing the work for me.

She did her degree at the same time as mine and I was the one teaching HER how to cite her references properly and proofreading HER work. Does that make me some kind of helicopter daughter?