to think the story that claims twelve year olds are drinking nineteen glasses of wine a week is bollocks?

[wannaBe]

There are, of course, exceptions to every rule.

But I simply do not believe that twelve year olds drinking at this level is common place - in fact I think it's more like bravado when these kids are answering these surveys to claim how much they are actually drinking.

And if I am in fact wrong, and twelve year olds up and down the country are consuming nineteen glasses of wine a week, then why are their parents not under investigation by Social Services, since a parent should surely know where their twelve year old is and what they are doing?

Of course it's bollocks. They asked the kids, didn't they. So what they now know is how many kids put down silly answers to a survey, not how many are drinking to excess. So they haven't tracked down the very few that might be.

I used to drink secretly from the age if 12, in fact I think I had my first drink at about 10.5... I used to sneak it from any alcohol which was knocking about, no-one even guessed, I think for some parents it is just so off the charts that they don't even allow it to cross their minds.

Think about those moody teenagers, storming off, spending hours along sulking, not communicating... It's not incomprehensible that a parent might not pick up on it if their child has unfettered access to alcohol and is not rolling about drunk.

That being said, I stand by the opinion that if this is a fact, then it is in the tiny minority.

Some will be, most will be lying. We all had to do a survey like this at school - I think lots of people lied.

Well they won't be drinking wine anyway, will they? It'll be Asda vodka at £9 a bottle or whatever.

But yes, of course they lied, and would lie to their friends about lying, too.

I was about 12/13 when I started drinking with my friends, and it was beer, wine or cider. Simply because they are the drinks which most parents had in the house which were easier to sneak out.

There is less chance of a bottle of wine or a couple of cans of beer missing being noticed.

This didnt apply to my house as my parents rarely drank, so apart from the obligatory bottle of sherry that lasted about 5 christmas's, and the brandy or whiskey which was for medicinal purposed only and lasted even longer than the sherry, there was nothing to sneak out. My friends parents seemed to drink more, so they would manage to get the booze.

As more people now have drinks at home because its so bloody expensive to go to the pub, I expect access to drink at home is a lot easier for kids too.

There are indeed gangs of kids sitting in parks at night, swigging from big bottles of booze.

In my day, it was white lightening.

I'm from a council estate in a mining village. I saw it a lot there. Every weekend. outside the shop. down the park... groups of youths, swigging from big bottles of cider and hurling abuse at passers by.

I now live in a posh village where I lower the house prices just by being here and I have yet to see any groups of youths swigging from anything. And I've been here 6 years.

I know you get slaughtered on here for making such kind of observations but it is the truth of my personal experience as a working class, miners child growing up in a mining village and my experience as an adult in a posh rural village It is what it is.

The posh kids will be doing it indoors Hectate

I've got a 12 year old and neither he or his friends hang out round the streets let alone chugging bottles of wine. I'm sure it does happen but not round here, sounds like bravado.

well my 12 year old and his mates certainly dont hang around drinking bottles of wine or anything stronger than cola. They are more interested in playing xbox and other things.

I am sure there are some kids who drink to excess, but mine dont.

I think HGOTN has it about right. If the survey asked a bunch of scallies who routinely meet up in the park at night and share a few bottles of whatever they can get their hands on, the equivalent of 19 glasses of wine is probably a conservative estimate. Being the owner of a very un-scally 11.5yo DS that still retches and coughs at the mere smell of beer... no I don't think it's universal. More information required, I think...

I always think the same about surveys which ask teenagers at which age they lost their virginity.

Of course they lie ffs!! I would have lied if I was asked as a teenager, no teenager wants to fess up to being a virgin, and in some circles confessing that the mere smell of booze makes you want to vomit is on par.

Weirdly, people lie even when the surveys are confidential. It's been proved.

I don't believe any survey that relies on teenagers telling the truth about booze, fags, drugs, booze or money

I did this at 14/15 but 12 sounds like madness to me.

Same as Hecate when I was growing up. Not a miners village though, East London, but the same other than that. It was a normal happening on most nights of the week and weekend, kids younger than 12 upwards to 20's hanging about and drinking in estates, outside shops, parks etc. Bottles of K or diamond white, anything really; sometimes vodka etc too.

I've been told by my dd that, as this is a very boring place to live, alcohol is generally the only thing to do. Cider and buckfast are the drinks of choice, and some of her pals started drinking at 11 + 12.

They go over the woods and drink, or use an old garden hut that backs onto the woods, and have competitions to see who can drink the most of their 3ltr bottle of cider quickest.

I starting to think there is something wrong with the kids round here then. I currently have a living room full of raucous 11 and 12 year olds who are getting over excited about a chess match.

I grew up in a very poor area. Yes there were some kids hanging about parks, etc who regularly drank large amounts of alcohol. But I don't think most kids were - and certainly not at this age.

There will be children drinking at a young age. Same as they will be smoking. Or taking harder drugs. Some primary children are drug couriers for older gangs because they know under the age of 10 they can't be prosecuted. Some mothers train their toddlers to shop lift.

You live in a nice area. I live in a nice area. I'm still aware it goes on.

Ask any teacher how many of their pupils have roaring hangovers and the answer will shock you.

Ask any teacher (nice area or not) how many are dealing drugs in the playground.

Ask any teacher if they know who does the racketeering on the school bus in the morning.

You'd be shocked at how common place it is.

This is an interesting article from The Independent in 2007.

Teen and pre-teen drinking can be written about in a sensationalised way. There may be flaws in some studies.

But there is a problem with early heavy drinkers in UK - look at the increase in hospitalisation figures (some in the link) and the increased rates of early onset liver disease.

But it seems beyond doubt that many children this age are drinking, some of them heavily enough to do themselves damage - especially in deprived areas.

I think OP is BU, as I read it as a dismissive attitude towards vulnerable children.

My eldest two kids dad was drinking heavily by the age of 12. He started in a local park with a gang of his mates and they all used to take it in turns to nick their parents alchohol and drink it in the park at night. His parents both worked but were a bit lax in parenting skills and the result was that by the age of 15 he had a stomach ulcer, had to have his stomach pumped and was a borderline alchoholic by 17. He was also having sex at the age of 14/15.

Nowadays he's very responsible and has calmed it all right down. Strangely enough he was the only one out of his drinking mates not to touch fags, he hates smokers.

I don't know much of what todays teens get up to (have 12 year old though and he plays xbox with his mates mainly) I do know that alchohol/smoking/drugs/sex was a big part of our teen culture when I was growing up in a middleclass area.