to think that after 1/2am there are no acceptable noise limits?

[dobeessneeze]

My first AIBU, a very dull one, but one that I'd genuinely like opinions on...

I live in a really quiet part of a really quiet town (like think lots of nice old ladies wondering who's had a mad night out if a car drives past after 9pm)

For the past 2 nights, my neighbour upstairs has woken up me and DP at 3am by bringing friends back after they've been out. They haven't been that loud, but it's been enough to wake us up and to prevent us from going back to sleep - when I finally dropped back off sometime after 5 this morning, they were still going, and it was 6.15 yesterday morning when they stopped. (I'm co-sleeping, so can't really use earplugs either due to fear that DD might choke on them).

It's not mad party noise, just the noise of 4 or 5 people chatting, laughing, listening to music, creaking floorboards etc, but it's enough. When I ask them to keep it down, they do for a bit, but then the noise escalates again.

AIBU to think that, in such a quiet neighbourhood, making any noise after about 1 or 2am is unacceptable or should I find myself a nice vaccuum to move to?

You have to suck up the human bits, but you should ask for the music to be turned off. Not down, off.

I think that 3-5am noise loud enough to wake you up is unacceptable. That said, if a creaking floorboard is enough to disturb you it sounds like either you're really sensitive or the soundproofing between houses isn't good enough.

Might be worth having a discussion with the neighbour to find out whether this is likely to be a regular thing and if it is, if there's away around it. Don't get stroppy with them unless you've never been to the loo in the middle of the night and your baby's never cried.

Have you moved into my old house? My last neighbours were exactly like this, that's why we moved.
YANBU
I used to get my own back by hoovering really loudly and for ages when I got up, knowing they were still in bed.

I think any music after 1am is totally unreasonable imo.

Are you in a flat?

You're right, I am super-sensitive at the moment as we've just come through the other side of a couple of months of DD sleeping really badly, so my sleep patterns are totally shot anyway (sleeping really lightly and waking up every hour and a half whether DD is in the bed/stirring or not).

I think this is the problem though - they're really noisy when they get in, with doors slamming, music on etc, which wakes us up. Then they lower down to a dull roar with the occasional bang or laugh, which is just enough to keep us from getting back to sleep.

The stroppy ship might have sailed with me wailing "go home or go to bed" and something about the police at 4am this morning. I have turned into a sleep-deprived crazy person.

YABU unless as said your kid has never kicked off at 5am and woke them up.

Phoning the police and asking them to get your neighbours to stop talking as its too loud might get you sent to the funny farm.

DD is actually very quiet at night, but obviously this might not last and I'm sure there will be some time when she does wake them up. Though even then, this is a regular occurrence on their part, and it's becoming more frequent.

I am beginning to wonder whether the funny farm is in fact the best place for me anyway.

Do they slam doors, put music on, laugh loudly and wake you up when they come home without friends? Or is it only when they have friends over?

Only when they have friends over. I think he works weird hours because I can often hear him up in the night, using the loo, walking around etc, which is fine. It's when there are 4 or 5 of them up there all talking and laughing that it wakes us up, and it tends to go on until stupid o'clock. It used to happen about once a month, but is getting more frequent (I think he split up with his girlfriend and is creating some sort of bachelor pad). Now it's pretty much every week, and we've had 2 nights running so far. They did it a couple of weeks ago on a Wednesday night as well, until 4.30.

And actually - thinking about the point of me being overly sensitive - DP is sleeping in another room, further away from the noise, without a baby in with him, and it was still loud enough to wake him up and keep him awake.

The trouble is, it's the talking rather than the music that's the real problem, which, as people have said, is harder to complain about.

YANBU

I think you should ask him to at least not put any music on -- no music at all. That is completely reasonable and while not the whole problem, it will help. People talk louder when there's music on.

Does he have carpet? That would also help.

Could you try a white noise machine for your room? that would block out outside noise. it's often great for baby sleep too.

I have massive sympathy, my DS was a terrible sleeper until about 16 months and I was a lunatic whenever neighbours made noise. We are actually popping some champagne later because our noisy 18 year old neighbours are moving out!

YANBU
You can plausibly ask him to keep night time socialising to weekends only, not to turn music on at all but you can't really tell him not to have friends over at all. Maybe he can mitigate it a bit by limiting it to one or two nights a week which you can anticipate and by not playing music. And maybe you could swap rooms with yout H on weekends?

Since it is the talking and the general "being" that is annoying you you are going to have to suck it up.

As you have said he works anti social hours and as such your TV on at 7pm/ your DD splashing in the bath at 5pm/ friends over for morning coffee at 9am may well be massively irritating to him.

Unless you are prepared to operate in silence during the hours that he would ordinarily sleep then a bit of give and take is what is called for.

The music is OTT. And it may be if you let him know that is bothering you, he'll realize how bad the soundproofing is and be a bit quieter.

IMO this is different from baby noise. Everyone knows babies cry. There is little that can be done. Adults do not have to socialize to music at 3am.

Is there a way of soundproofing the ceilng in your flat? I don't know how this would be done but it might help.

Something like this It might cost a bit though.

Do you own the flat or rent it? If you rent you could discuss it with your landlord. If you own you could discuss splitting the cost with your upstairs neighbour.

Good suggestion on the white noise machine - I hadn't thought of getting one for me! Probably cheaper than sound-proofing the ceiling too (though I quite like that idea as well).

We're renting, and it's not likely to be long-term - it's fine for a baby but I think we'll outgrow the place before too long.

I think I'll maybe go and speak to him tomorrow and explain what the problem is and hopefully try and convey that I am not usually a raving crazy person. I think no music, trying to not be extra noisy when they just get in, keeping it to weekends only and not two nights in a row might be a good compromise.

I was chatting to another neighbour today, whose flat is further away than ours from the noisy guy and they woke her up as well. So if they do keep doing it, then maybe having a stream of neighbours asking them to keep it down will annoy him so much he just gives up... (hopefully).

Personally I think you are being unreasonable. If your only complaint was about the music then that would be perfectly reasonable, but given your range of disturbing behaviours, including creaking floorboard then it seems you're simply being very very sensitive to noise. Its his home too and its reasonable for him to have friends over and talk during the night, I'm sure he finds your child screaming early in the morning (7,8,9am) massively irritating too. Overtime it is likely you will desensitise as this noise is a part of flat living

I don't think that you are being unreasonable at all, but I do think you should move. We lived in a flat once with a family above us. They didn't make excessive noise really, just kids playing and getting up early at the weekend/playing piano, running round etc. But because the soundproofing was non-existent we could hear everything and it was awful. We moved, and it was AMAZING.

Living with noise that disturbs you is a vicious circle as you hear the noise, so you listen out for the noise, so you hear the noise more, so you get annoyed and you find yourself listening out for the noise, so you hear it more etc etc until the point at which your neighbour farts and you leap out of bed apoplectic with rage and start banging the ceiling with a broom handle.

Just move. And try and move to a house.

yanbu, I live in a ground floor flat and recently started a thread on here about the neighbours above us playing music and having vicious rows til the early hours . I complained via a note and got a very shitty note back with no apology complaining about my dds tantrums (she is 5yo and has maybe 1 tantrum every couple of months so not excessive)

Will probably look to move next year.

I think the problem here is lack of understanding tho, we are all going to underestimate the noise we make and yet don't show enough understanding about the activities of our neighbours

Is it a purpose built flat or a divided house?

We lived in a lovely double upper flat in an idyllic location. It really was a beautiful house, much bigger and far nicer that what we have now. Our lives were made a living hell by the neighbours downstairs, as there was literally no soundproofing between floors. They were an elderly couple and the husband was deaf. He listed to the tv at top volume and shouted instead of talked. Not a problem you might think, but over the course of nearly 3 years it drove me INSANE. I worked from home too and it was so bad I wore ear plugs all day just to block them out.

I would do my best to move tbh. The noise at night isn't reasonable imo. You can't compare the noise a child makes to someone playing music in the small hours. Music can be turned off, a child can't.

i think yabu, they are socialising in their own house not having a rave, 4 or 5 people is not a lot, and it is fri and sat night you are complaining about? and one wednesday? is that only one midweek time they had friends round while you have been there?

i live in a house, and in the night i can hear my neihbours, mostly crying kids, and i know they can probably hear my kids too.

and my dh works shifts so often comes home 2/3/4 am and then i will get up, he will watch a film and we will chat etc, but they have never complained and i am sure they can hear everything!!

I think you are being a bit U, although not through your own fault, sounds like the soundproofing in your flats is non existent. We lived in a bottom floor flat for three years and for the first 2 heard not a peep from upstairs, although I think I did disturb the poor lady when I went temporarily deaf and had the TV on ++ .

Even after she moved out and a couple with a young child moved in, we would only hear him thudding like a baby elephant whilst running/playing, also maybe heavy stuff dropping. We couldn't hear washing machines or toilets flushing for example, sorry for the detail but if you can hear floorboards creaking and toilets flushing then there basically is no soundproofing. In that situation I am sure they are putting up with child related noise, maybe use a fan pointed at the ceiling for white noise, or an ipod for distracting noise that you can regulate.

Also maybe have a chat with them about it at a sensible hour during the day, do they have plain floorboards or carpets? I imagine that could make a difference.

It's a purpose built flat, and I'm pretty sure they have carpets. We are going to try and move. To a house. In a field. With only mute cows for neighbours.

I do think I'm probably being a bit unreasonable, and I get that it's a bit rich for a woman with a baby to be complaining about other people's noise, but it doesn't stop me turning into a raving harpy at 4am when they're keeping me awake. :D @ emsyj's farting/broom handle situation -- that's it exactly!

Thinking about londoner's point though -- I get that he is entitled to do what he likes when he likes in his own home and just because he lives upstairs doesn't mean I'm supposed to go up and tuck him in and turn out the light at 10.30 every night.

But at what point does his right to enjoy his home end and the rest of the building's right to enjoy their own homes begin? I do admit that my sensitivity to noise and general sleep deprivation at the moment are probably making this worse in my mind than it really is, BUT he also woke up DP and my next-door neighbour, both of whom are perfectly normal sleepers.

How many people in the building does he have to be disturbing before our right to do what we want at 4am overrides his? I'm asking more from an academic point of view now really as I do think londoner is right about give and take and understanding our impact on other people, and am just interested really. Is every weekend fair game for the 5am brigade, or just every other weekend? Surely the fact that he knows it's keeping other people awake and continuing on regardless is rather rude? If I knew I was disturbing my neighbour by doing something that I thought was entirely reasonable, I'd think twice about doing it. Like I say, sort of academic now, but just interested.

Do you know where their living room is in relation to your bedroom. Could you suggest they try to use the other room that isn't directly above you, would that work or would you still be able to hear it.

Creaking floor boards are a pain. There's nothing much that can be done about that. We have them, I'm sure it disturbs downstairs if we nip to the loo in the middle of the night. I hear upstairs now and then. It's a loud, sudden creak.