or are DB and SIL about contact with grandparents?

[Weta]

Just out of interest, do you think this scenario is unreasonable?

DB and SIL think my mum should visit them and their three children (aged 10, 8 and 6) about once a month, for a maximum of 60-90 minutes, and spend that time playing board games with the children as this is 'the only way to stop them killing each other', or alternatively the whole family will visit her on the same basis (with their board games). They live 5 minutes' drive away from my mum.

I think this level of contact is pretty minimal, and my mum finds it unsatisfactory as it makes it hard to develop individual relationships with each child.

There is, of course, history here (in my view SIL is a witch and DB allows her to get away with it), but I'm just interested in what people think of the scenario at face value.

It does sound a bit odd, I'll grant you, but what is the 'history'? Without knowing that who can say whether its unreasonable or not.

YABU to get involved in any way, shape or form apart from supporting your mum.

If SIL is being a witch then that's an issue between her and her DH and her and her MIL.

It does sound a bit odd but if SIL doesn't get on with your DM (even if she is a witch) then I can see why she wouldn't want your DM there too frequently, rightly or wrongly

History is complicated... SIL always seems to have felt threatened by my mum and has tended to blow hot and cold and then this has led to various family rows (including with me as I consider that SIL has treated my mum appallingly).

To give a bit more perspective, they get on absolutely fine with my dad (who lives 20 minutes away) and his arrangement is that he visits once a week for an hour max and basically watches them eat lunch (he doesn't eat at lunchtime) and plays a game with the kids. They never visit him or go out anywhere with him.

I have no intention of getting involved in this myself :)

But I do give my mum emotional support, and was just interested in whether this kind of arrangement was more common than I might think.

Annpan88 I take your point - I guess I just think DB could do more to facilitate individual relationships with the children, not necessarily with SIL present...

Trouble is - she's your lovely Mum and you love her! You aren't exactly going to side with your SIL are you?! If SIL feels 'threatened' maybe its with good reason (in her opinion). She is facilitating some contact and granted she's being a bit special about the board games but what the alternative? Nanna filling them with sweets or sipping tea or what? Board games are a nice way to include everyone. You are best off staying out of it. My ILs porbably find me a bit strange but of course really its them who are strange - it really is :)

It's not the amount of contact that is unusual, it is the prescriptiveness that is unreasonable.

It sounds strange to me, as I wouldnt dream of being so authoritarian with regards to how DD's grandparents spend time with her, citing specific activities and time resteictions is bizarre to me. However, this may be how your SIL had contact with her grandparents, so she may see it as normal?

If it is upsetting your mum, suggest she talks to your DB about it, and ask that she see's the children more/.in a different setting etc.

I agree with Trills. My DD wouldn't have been interested in playing board games at any of those ages. She would have loved to have seen Nanny though.
It isn't your business really, so I'd stay out of it.

ArtVandelay yeah I know, of course I will side with my mum... the alternative my mum would prefer would probably involve more chance of actually talking to each child as an individual, things like doing cooking or gardening with them (at her own place obviously - this has been the case in the past), imaginative games, essentially not being dictated to as to exactly how she should interact with them.

My own children unfortunately only see her once a year as we live on the other side of the world, but they adore her and love doing all those things I mentioned, plus nature walks and outings. My 8yo DS will happily chat to her on the phone for half an hour every couple of weeks.

As I say, I'm not 'involved' in this except in supporting my mum.

I have much sympathy with the approach tbh. I wish my parents were well behaved enough to stick to rules instead of messing every arrangement up thru my ma's PA crap.

I think it is quite weird tho, it's ultra controlling. I can't really stand being with my mum too long but don't mind her taking the kids on their own. I find the board games thing a bit odd too.

Trills I think you have hit the nail on the head actually, at least from my perspective (which I acknowledge is biased).

The RealMrsH - actually I posted this because she has just had a long talk to him about it and he said this was the scenario that would suit them best. My mum will go along with it as it's obviously up to them how much they want to see her, and she has no desire to force them into something they don't want. But she is sad about it.

Definitely not what SIL sees as normal though, as her own parents have very close contact with the children - the other GPs live 8 hours drive away but SIL and DB spend every school holidays and every Christmas there.

Apologies if I don't respond to these posts for a couple of days as I am about to head away...

Its a real shame you can only see her once a year. Has your brother mentioned anything about the situation? Why doesn't he jest bring the DCs round to your mums's and then pop to the shops or the gym? Like I say, my ILs are pretty cranky but I haven't got any concerns about leaving DS there so I can go shopping on my own. DS likes them!

Weta, I think you're absolutely right not to get involved. If you are on the other side of the world then I'm guessing you mainly hear your mum's side of the story? Does she vent to you? If so, what you hear might not be entirely free from bias.

I'm not saying the situation is your mum's fault but just that unless you know a bit more from unbiased friends and family on both sides, I'd be very cautious about getting involved.

duvetdayplease sorry to hear you have problems with your mum... thanks for your comments.

ArtVandelay she has had them at her place before, but they now seem to do about 3 or 4 activities each every week and are away with the other GPs every holidays, so DB says it's hard to find the time. see my post at 11.45.59 (must have crossed with yours) about her talking to DB.

That is a real shame, but if they have spoken about it and your DB is in agreement with SIL, then there isnt much to be done other than maybe ask SIL what the issue is? This may cause arguments though and be more of a hindrance than a help.

It seems very odd and on the surface sounds very hard on your mother. But why does your father visit alone once a week (assuming your parents are together?) Why does your mother want to see the children with her son present but not her DIL? What has happened between them?

If they are only five minutes away, why can the kids not just go round to see their gran whenever they want to?

YABU for having anything to do with it AT ALL.

Maybe they prefer her parents?

Or SIL finds your mum difficult and your brother is backing her up?

And I guess the children can´t go individually/without parents as the family "comes as a whole"

Sorry not to reply on Friday- was away over the weekend and didn't have internet access.

Scroobious I have actually heard about it from my dad too (he's very objective) but to be honest I have heard enough of SIL's fluctuating views about my mum over the years (ranging from feeling threatened to 'I love her to bits' and back again) to have a fair idea of how this is playing out. I do accept that my mum's perceptions are of course subjective, but I trust her utterly and know that she is trying to make the best of it and to achieve the best possible outcome.

The RealMrs H as you say, there isn't anything to be done really, I was just interested in people's reactions.

Monstrously NarkyPuffin my parents are divorced (though very amicable), which is why they visit separately. My mum doesn't especially want to see DB and children without SIL (except that SIL's hostile manner often makes her feel unwelcome in their home) - it was more that if SIL doesn't really want to see my mum she could at least let DB and children spend time with her.

squeakyfreakytoy it's 5 minutes drive so children can't go independently. My mum isn't allowed to drive them anywhere - they tell her this is because her car isn't good enough, though to me they said it's because they don't trust her driving. Obviously I haven't told her that, although I have no problem with her driving my children and she has only ever had one minor accident about 30 years ago.

Diddl Yes they obviously do prefer her parents, which is fair enough - I guess as one of the other posters said, my issue is not so much the frequency (once a month is fine with my mum if that's what suits them) but more the prescriptive way they want to control her interaction with the kids.

I find that 'family comes as a whole' approach pretty sad, as I think it is extremely beneficial for children to spend individual time with their parents and grandparents and that it really furthers those relationships in a way that whole-family time (with all the sibling rivalry it entails) doesn't. My mum has had the GCs on their own in the past, but is obviously dependent on DB and SIL to facilitate that.

If your Mum doesn't especially want to see the dc without your db and sil around, then there's not much she can do except put up with it.

If she did want to see the children on their own, and offered to take them out or have them at hers while your db and sil had time alone together, then she would have a much better chance of building relationships with them and doing the activities that she wants to do.

If she wants to see the children and have lots of time to do cooking etc, but not have to look after them on her own, then she is BU.

If your sil doesn't particularly like your Mum, she is not obliged to do any more than host her once a month so that the children know their GP's.

It does seem a bit strange that your db and sil wouldn't want your Mum doing cooking or gardening at her place, but then if they know that those sort of activities are the kind of things that usually result in fall outs between the three of them, then I think it's ok for them to ask that they don't do them if it's the parents and not your Mum that have to deal with the fall out. If you Mum wants to do those things then she should be offering to do it without the parents around, so that if fall outs happen then she can deal with it herself.

slavetofilofax sorry I probably haven't been clear enough - my mum would dearly love to have time with the GCs on her own, I just meant she isn't trying to exclude SIL by demanding that she see the GCs with DB and without SIL.

Admittedly, I think she would find it hard with all three at once at her place as it is not huge and the children do seem to have a big sibling rivalry thing going on (which is why their parents spend all day playing board games with them or taking them to numerous activities), but it has worked well in the past if she takes one or two at a time.

She would also love to take them out but isn't allowed to drive them (and probably not to take them on a bus either) so that's not possible. She would love to have them on their own at her place (and has in the past) but this is difficult now because the children do lots of activities and spend all school hols with the other GPs.

She's very happy to accept once a month, it's more the prescriptive nature of the interaction that she finds hard to cope with.