To perhaps complain about this phlebotomist?

[DawnOfTheDeementedDead]

DS3 is 21months old, and had to have some blood tests taken today. I had to make an appointment to go to the hospital to see the specialist childrens phlebotomist as he's so young.

We got there, she looked at DS's arm and then said she wouldn't freeze the area as his veins looked quite delicate. He needed six vials taking altogether. Obviously he screamed when the needle was put in his arm, but i held him still and he didn't wriggle. She managed to get four vials filled and then the blood stopped coming out, so she said she'd try his other arm.

I asked if she would numb his arm this time and she said no, it was just a little jab. She stuck the needle in and really rooted about, DS was screaming all this time. I held him as still as i possibly could, but he was incredibly upset. She managed to get another vial out and the needle started slipping out, she thrust it back in, but again it came out and DS started bleeding quite a lot - blood was dripping off the underside of his elbow.

I asked her to stop, and she muttered under her reath 'Oh for Gods sake' and pulled the needle out. She then said she needed the full six vials and so she'd have to jab him again. I asked again for her to numb the area and she said she could as it'd mean spraying the stuff on broken skin and that would hurt more.

So because DS desperately needed these bloods doing i agreed. Again he obviously screamed. As we left she said 'Oh he'll probably bruise, but thats what he gets for wriggling'

WTF did she expect? He's nowt more than a baby and she's jabbing him with poxy needles! I found her whole attitude and manner really nasty - really not suited to working with children at all.

Would i be unreasonable to put in a complaint about her?

Yes, it would be reasonable to complain - the hospital should have a PALS (patient liaison) department to do this. Not that I'm defending what this phlebotomist did, but she could have well been muttering what she did about herself or the situation rather than you or your child. IMHO I think the problem started when she couldn't get all of it from one arm and had to try the other. If she was a specialist children's phlebotomist (I have never heard of this title but presumably she has had more experience working with children than other phlebotomists), she would probably have been quite skilled at doing it, but many people have an off day.
FWIW, not all doctors are experienced as some veteran nurses and phlebotomists either - the best we had for blood tests was a children's A&E nurse. I don't think there was anything wrong with her not numbing the area with EMLA/Ametop (local anaesthetic cream) - there are instances where the use of it isn't advisable.
As both a parent whose had to endure what you went through as well as a health professional, I would say that for such a large amount needed for tests, insertion of a little tube where the blood can drain continuously, with the tube and needle secured with tape (till the amount required was collected) would have been preferable to just a needle and bottle, as these can slip and move. The experienced staff members can usually accomplish this quickly and without distress, without need for the cream.
And if you don't succeed after trying one arm, the best measure is to give the child a break (a little walk and a cuddle) then come back and try the other arm - we're talking about an interruption of only 30-60s: quicker than the time spent struggling and failing. (The break is often just as beneficial for the person taking blood!)
But her comments about "what he gets for wriggling" were unprofessional and not acceptable - it's not like he was wriggling on purpose.

Thank you all for clarifying what i know - i do need to make PALS aware of this incident. I will do so today.

kipperandtiger - the thing she used sounded much as you described - it was a needle with a sort of butterfly on it, and then a little tube that attached to the seperate vials. She just held it with her finger.

DS had a rough night. He kept waking, screaming and rubbing the inside of his arms which now have what look like red blood blisters on them. Good idea about taking photos of them - i'll do that as well.

I'm worried that he will remember this and be scred of having his blood taen in uture- and in all honesty, i couldn't blame him!

Complain!
Do you think she was in a hurry? My ds has had that cream and you have to wait about 45mins for it to work

Oh, i hadn't thought of that - our appointment was at 4.30, so it was the last of the day, so it may have been she was in a rush.

Definately complain.

Both my ds's have had blood tests as toddlers.

DS1 had one aged2, it was a nightmare as he was allergic to the emla cream, so they had to wipe it off and do it without anasthetic. He screamed the place down and my husband had to pin him down. :( Wiht hindsight I would have told them to naff off, we'd come back another day, his arm was all swollen and red where he had had a reaction to the emla, and I now know they could have used freezing sray instead.

DS2 was a completely different experience. He had 6 vials taken about 6m ago, a special children's plebotomist in children's out patient. I could not rate them highly enough. There were two of them, they were kind and patient... and incredibl good. Ds2 didn't even cry. They used freesing spray as he is also allergic to emla. I was feeling physically sick before the appointment, knowing how traumatic it was for DS1, but they were brilliant.

Please complain

Complain.

They way a child experiences a blood test can cause problems for years afterwards if they need more tests.

I feel very, very stongly about this sort of thing.

I felt like I had to stand guard over DD for two years. Most HCPs were lovely but it only took the odd one to cause huge upset and distress.

My DD was not a coward, she was a good girl and did everything that was needed however awful so I strongly objected to some idiot who didnt know here bustling in and saying 'be a brave girl, its only quick, it wont hurt'.

It is up to us, who work with children, to do things at their pace. Unless there is a dire emergency, we should take as much time and do whatever it takes to make their experience as comfortable as possible.

Apologies to the nice Phlebs out there but TBH I didnt let them anywhere near my DD after the first few weeks.

I think they are so used to taking blood that some get a bit complacent.

dee if your DS needed that much taken I would have expected them to numb him and put a proper canular in, not hold it with her thumb. It would have taken longer and involved more hanging about but I am sure you wouldnt have minded.

I am furious on your behalf.

It brings up so much crap, stuff I am still having therapy for. Our kids should be treated SO carefully when they have procedures done.

DONT feel bad. DONT feel guilty.

You did what you needed to do in the circumstances. You should NOT have been put in those circumstances in the first place.

That was unacceptable in my eyes. I'm a paediatrician and if I thought a patient of mine experienced that I would be very unhappy. Taking blood can be technically tricky and upsetting but every effort should be made to minimise distress and that simply didn't happen here.

To be honest, this is my experience with Phlebs in general. Most that I've come across have terrible attitudes and have nearly always wanted to complain after leaving the clinic, and it's not as if I'm a problematic patient, I sit and do as I'm told. Just fed up of being pulled and pushed around, referred to as love and generally treated as an inconvenience!

That is terrible. There is a 3 attempt rule at our local hospital even for adults which is why it's taken 3 weeks, 10 stabs and still not got the 2ml required from me. My GP is now trying to persuade the oncology department to do it as the most experienced phleb has tried and failed.

Totally unacceptable treatment of a toddler.
She has no right to refuse to freeze him, but can I gently ask, why did you allow her to go ahead without doing so? Did she refuse to take the blood if he was numbed?

Yes complain, poor little man, hope he is feeling a bit better

Unmumsnettie Hugs for you and you little Boy

Chicleteeth - maybe the op found it difficult to stand up to a medical professional, lots of people do.

Chicleteeth - she said that because he veins looked quite delicate if she froze them they would collapse.

I have spoken to PALS today and they have advised me to put everything in writing and include photos, which i am in the middle of doing.

Yes. Absolutely complain. This happened to me when I was 7, all exactly the same - loads of vials, both arms, rooting around, blood everywhere, muttering grumpy phlebotomist, etc. It was awful and I'm now 26 and only just about getting over the resulting needlephobia.

If your poor DS does end up very frightened, explain that it wasn't right of them and you have complained so that they can make sure she never does it again. My dad was with me when it happened to me and he complained. (My father is the most polite, gentle, mild mannered man you could hope to meet.....unless someone has hurt his little girl, at which point he's still polite but the gentleness and mild manneredness goes right out the window). It meant a lot to me.

I was all ready to say YABU as I think we all jump too quickly to complain about people who do difficult jobs but just

YANBU AT ALL to complain - I admire your restraint for not giving her a piece of your mind. Your poor DS- and you it is traumatic enough to have to hold your own child while someone else does something painful to them, without the snarky comments and vile manner.

She sounds awful although I think it is quite common to not use the cream. DS1 (severely autistic) has had to have a few blood tests and they've never used the cream because it would have been more stressful for him (and involved more waiting) - three of us would hold him down while one person concentrated on getting the blood. 2 phlebotemists - one to hold the arm completely still, one to get the cannula in and collect the vials. Me and DH trying to hold his body as still as possible. Despite the screaming and kicking etc they were always polite and soothing

YANBU. It's hard enough as an adult to have the phlebotomist tutting because of our thin veins and have attempts to get blood from several different veins. For a little boy that must have been very hard...and for his Mum even harder.

Don't feel bad, you know why he's having tests and are probably very worried about the results - of course you wanted all the samples done so you can start to get whatever help is needed for your little chap. You did the best you could, in the situation you were in at the time. And by making a complaint you are helping other parents to get the best they can in the future.

I don't know how helpful or otherwise this information is but will offer it just in case. My friend's boy has multiple health issues and has lots of blood tests (he's 2.2). All samples are taken from him from the veins at the back of his knees as they are thicker. He lies on his tummy and friend massages his head while he has it done, after he's had the spray.

Hope all is well with his results and you get a decent outcome from your complaint.

Oh please complain!

I feel sick reading this.

I have regular blood tests & my Drs surgery know that I´m a wimp about it.

My left arm is useless-the needle always goes out the side of the vein & they no longer try with that arm!

Yes yaimee I am well aware that people often don't like to questions HCP. I was asking because I was trying to get a picture of just how rude and stubborn this person was.

OP YADNBU. Report her immediately and document with pictures too