To Be P'd Off That my DM Wanted DDs Sympathy…..

[rockinhippy]

Which ended with DD in floods of tears, past bed time for over an hour last night & I of course had to mop up the mess

Genuinely not sure if I'm over reacting, as I do have a very difficult relationship with my DM, no coincidence I live at the opposite end of the country :(,

she is pretty narcissistic to put it mildly & I've grown up mopping her brow over one hurt/illness or another, things like attempted suicide when I was 8 & my having to get her help ?after leaving home I had monthly phone calls where I was up all night talking her out of topping herself ..& then get up for work ?..

this and LOTS more has meant that in my in my old age become pretty fed up of doing so, so we often go for long stretches of her not speaking to me, because these days I tend to tell her straight & she throws a strop & I'm evil & cut off for months on end ?for example ?recently their Cat died of kidney cancer - so DM now has convinced herself she has kidney Cancer

She does have some pretty serious health problems, which on their own are enough & she uses to best effect :( so basically I've become fed up of been the adult & counsellor in our relationship, & though love her to bits, for my own sanity I just don't tolerate it any more, so I am aware I might genuinely be over reacting..

Story as follows...
I put DD on the phone to DM last night - DD was already in bed so it was meant to be a short "goodnight" chat - DD was practically falling asleep on the phone & hardly said 2 words - it is often hard to get a word in sideways with my DM, & I kept trying to coax DD to say good night & get off the phone - without being heard or I'll be evil witch again

Anyway turns out DMs conversation with DD (who is barely 9) was by way of telling her all about their Cat dying & how heartbroken DM was over is, DD tells me afterwards that this was pretty much all she talked about & when DD didn't say much back, DM then goes onto remind her of our own Cat who died last year, leaving DD heartbroken & thats how "Nana" feels now so she should be really sad for her

I could see DD welling up, so took the phone from her, without knowing what the conversation was about - told DM that DD was tired & it was only meant to be a quick call to say goodnight - DM said, "well I thought I was keeping her awake for you, she needs cheering up & someone to talk to" (DD is on crutches after a fall) - its gone 10 30 by now & shes been on the phone well over an hour

Put the phone down myself to have DD break down into hysterics, sobbing her heart out over out old Cat & "Nanas Cat & everyone dying" she was inconsolable for nearly an hour

Surely its not normal to expect a 9 yr old to have that sort of conversation at bedtime if at all

AIBU to be fuming & wondering why the hell I ever bother with her at all??

Thanks :)

YANBU.

I don't really know what to say other than that. It's pretty awful to say anythign like that to a 9 year old. Especially one that is about to go to sleep!

You need to monitor the interactions between your DD and your mother more carefully, your DD needs protection from exactly the sort of situation you put her in.
'I kept trying to coax DD to say good night & get off the phone - without being heard or I'll be evil witch again'
Called witch by whom? If it's your DM and you are worrying about it, grow a thicker skin and get your priorities sorted out. Your DD needn't be distressed, your mother's issues should be your burden not hers.

Yanbu! What a mean old bag.

yabu. your mum is obviously in pieces about the cat dying, why shouldn't she tell your dd she is sad?

I think it was all a lot more loaded than than spider.

My mother can be very, very like this, OP. You have my every sympathy.

I let my mother have as little unsupervised by me time with my children as possible. They're younger than yours and dd is very wary of her, so it's easier, but I can't bear her toxic influence near my children.

Good lord

What a barrel of laugh she must be as a grandmother

No yanbu. Your poor DD. I am blessed with 3 overly-sensitive children so dying cats would reduce them to heaps of sobbing jelly!

I was tempted to say YABU because although it caused upset, your dd is probably going to need to get used to your mother over the years, she's got you to talk it through with after all and though your Mum was VU well, she's just sad too eh?

However, I have to say YANBU at all. I know 2 people who could be your mum, just off what you say about her rings so many bells and I can HEAR these people saying and doing exactly the same things. I really feel for you, and thankk goodness none of the people I know like this are my mother. Because although they're pretty wonderful and full of love, sometimes you wish they just wouldn't wear their heart on their sleeve QUITE so much, and they all have mental health issues too.

YANBU to be pissed off. But I do refer back to my first sentence in that your DD is going to have to cope with your mum too, so its a good opportunity to help her through it, prepare her, and be there for her because your mum is inevitable! x

YABU to allow a 9 year old to have an hour long phone call with anyone at 9pm when she is knackered and practically falling asleep.

I think you need to protect your daughter from the kind of emotional blackmail you have been subjected to - your mother might be looking for a new target now you are no longer falling for it.

I would insist on speakerphone for all conversations between DD and your mother - and daytime only.

Yanbu about your mother. However yabu to get your daughter out of bed and let her stay on the phone for an hour!

Er- why did you let this happen?

DD should not have been allowed on the phone at that time of night to anyone, never mind a narcissistic Granny.

DownByThe River has given very good advice.

Spider that is the wrong way of going about it, to intentionally make a little girl upset by dragging up the past. What a toxic woman.

I remember my mum being highly pissed off when my gran moaned about her health in my birthday card ( when I was this kind of age)
YANBU to be very annoyed. My DDs would not be talking to Granny on the phone except on speaker phone so I could hear what was being said for a very long time. My 10 year old would have been very upset, apart from the fact that she doesn't do awake much after 10pm and with have also been in a horrible mood.

When DS was small: if the phone rang after he was in bed and asleep or moving that way DW or I answered it and did not wake him for any member of the family. (We were a bit more flexible about friends of his own age if he might still be awake so that he would not lose face). It did not matter if MIL or my DM asked for a quick word - the answer was No, he's in bed, it will have to wait until tomorrow and if that caused upset at the other end of the line, too bad.

And neither of his DGMs would have upset him like that in any event.

You need to be firm in saying No, and when a call starts at a reasonable hour you need to say out loud That's enough now, say goodnight and ring off - and if necessary take the phone away much sooner than you did. You have to be in control of the situation and not let your mother use a nine as a comfort blanket. Good luck with this, it is not going to be easy.

I don't really understand how you can describe your mother's behaviour so insightfully, yet still subject your daughter to it. You need some rules, if you want her mother in both your lives: supervised contact only? An hours phonecall when you can't hear exactly what's being said seems like a bad idea.

My parents can be a bit of a nightmare, in the way you've described and more. My sis and I have known since long before having children that GP contact would have to be limited and supervised (without ever explicitly saying so to GP, avoiding any drama).

Really, do you need this woman in you and your DD's life? You know what she is and what it has done to you. Try and stand back from the situation, disregard anything you might feel you "owe" to your mother (because you have said you love her), because I think that may be where the " I am aware I might genuinely be over reacting" is coming from. You are NOT overreacting. You need to limit this woman's access to your DD. Do not allow her unfettered, unsupervised contact. No phonecalls except on speakerphone . No private conversations. Limit, limit, limit. If you feel strong enough, cut her out. You owe your daughter your protection from this.

Agree with others. This woman has caused you untold distress in your own life. She has allowed to to parent her since you were a small child and is now trying to do the same to your dd. You need to protect your dd from her and tbh, I think you need to protect yourself from her as well.

I have a mother who can do the 'woe is me' innapropriate talk so I tend to have the phone on loudspeaker and interject when neceassary. I now tell my Mum its not correct to talk like that to a young DC. Another trick of hers is the 'Nana has to go now as she has to go to work and work hard all night so she can earn pennies for your Christmas presents'

You need to protect your DD from this so I would put on loudspeaker, I tend to find now my Mum is more carefull as she knows I will interupt

OP, my mother sounds very similar to yours.

I won't bore you with all the details but I think this probably sums it up - she was diagnosed with breast cancer a few years ago and was desperate to tell DS (6 at the time) that she had cancer because she wanted "his sympathy" ! We had to ask her to put all the leaflets away when we visited because she used to deliberately leave the mastectomy/breast cancer leaflets and the reconstruction surgery video out for him to see. To the point where, I phoned her before we visited and ask her to make sure they were out of his view and she point blank refused because she felt he had the right to know and if we weren't going to tell him, maybe she should. We said we'd tell him if it became necessary to do so and she is now in remission so it never was. I can't imagine why I'd have told him something like that so that she could see him crying about the fact his grandma might die. Fucking crazy bitch!

As Glimmerberry said, contact between DCs and my mother is limited and supervised.

Thank you all for the replies :) sorry slow to respond, have a muscle spasm in my neck & its made typing impossible, easing a bit, but still difficult - funnt how I get a pain in the neck - when my Mum - & now Brother & Dad are been a pain in the neck - IYSWIM

TBH its as I expected, but my Dad was taking the same stance as you spiderpig so for a moment I had a bit of a wobble on hence my being so insightful, yet still asking -

though I think those of you who do deal with this sort of thing will understand how its easy, having grown up been conditioned to see this as normal behaviour, even when your older & eyes wide open to it, you still have moments of questioning yourself & whether you are just being an uncaring bitch when confronted by other family members sticking up for her :( - she is genuinely ill after all, MS & Diabetes & wheelchair bound - though the Diabetes is bad & left a lot of damage, due to her deliberately abusing her insulin & eating the wrong foods on purpose - IYSWIM - sadly my Dad won't have it & refuses to speak with her GP about it all - & there is a LOT more for him to discuss - she rules the roost

so yes, I too think theres mental health problems there, possibly BiPolar, possibly down to the MS & I've recently been told over use of insulin can also cause problems - that said, she was well up until my mid 20s& she STILL did all the emotional blackmail stuff - when I confronted her over it one time, why me & not my Brother (who is spoilt rotten & can do no wrong) - I was told - "thats what Daughters are for"

I'll try & amswer a few questions, but struggling to sit here & type with my zombie neck, so excuse me not linking names

Its School hols here, hence why DD wasn't asleep - though she WAS in bed, just not sleeping - I'd forgotten to ring M&D earlier - had for a few days, so thought ringing then so DD could say goodnight would make it a quicker call & DD asked me to ring - playing for time of course but as it was School holiday I didn't mind so much.

This is the first time shes done this with DD though, so I am upset with myself & getting caught of guard - there was one incident of her starting to do her jab in front of DD when younger & I blew my top, so since then its been okay & when they are speaking to me, DD does have a lovely relationship with her - they probably have a lot in common, similar tastes, both very girly, love of shopping etc - which I hate - DM announced once that at least I'd given her in a GD what she'd always wanted in a DD

Anyway - long & complicated story short - looking like its not going to be an issue again - I am evil bitch from hell again & looking like I'm excommunicated from them again - supposedly not for complaining about this - but because I dared to annoy my DB - by texting him to congratulate him for giving up drugs & smoking - DF keeps on telling me this - we havent spoken in over a year - no bust up as such, but he just ignores my trying to keep up contact & stirs up a lot with my DM - also very manipulative - but thats a whole 'nother' thread - basically he is what she made him

Right now, I'm back to no contact - as DM has made sure my DF takes her side & he goes along with it for an easy life - though doesn't help the situation by constantly texting what DB & DM have said about me -

Generally all a bit to Jeremy Kyle for my liking :( - funny really as my Mum is so snooty & oh so middle class & looks down on others for not being

but now I'm back to trying to deal with explaining/or not why N&G & Uncle who one minute spoil DD rotten - & I mean obscenely so with gift after gift, usually too old for her - I mean DM actually sent DD bra & pants at 7 - this is the same DM who refused to believe I would grow up -

I do feel sad, but at the same time relieved - but very sad for DD - its not her fault, yet DM apparently says "she is as bad as me"

& PS - forgot to reply to some - YES her talking about the Cat was VERY loaded - she carried it on when I took the phone - I tried to change the subject by asking if she'd reciebed a wallpaper sample she asked me to organise for her - her reply - Yes, I got it, but I can't bring myself to look at it, as the pattern looks like "cats name" paw prints - so yes, as loaded as it gets

rockinhippy, you know the damage this woman has caused. And your dad, and your brother. Why do you continue contact at all? Why do you allow them to screw with your daughter's head? How healthy do you feel it to be, to have to have your grandparents' and uncle's behaviour EXPLAINED to you, because you're at risk of thinking their behaviour is your fault? She's 9. You know these people are toxic. Please, please, please, remove her from their influence completely.

I say this gently, but I often wonder when people say "why do you [maintain family relationships with toxic relatives] at all?" do they have any experience of what it is like to be estranged from a family member for any significant period of time. It may be the best option sometimes but it is really difficult to carry out. There is a "bit" on BBC news about child abuse in the US at the moment where they make the point that most children who grow up in abusive homes don't even realise until they are grown up that there is anything wrong with how they have been treated. And those are the "lucky" ones, who don't end up being abusers or abused again, recreating the cycle. I have worked with young people who have suffered extreme abuse and neglect and when many of them go into foster care they are desperate to get back home, even though they have suffered unimaginable torment there. It is home, it is what they know, it is how they define "love".

OP, you are getting there but you do need to control this relationship and I would really be careful about allowing your DD to be too close to your DM as she will manipulate this. How will this go in DD's teenage years? Does your DD know what your DM is really like? She probably trusts her.. and listens to her.. this may not be the best thing. Put those boundaries in place now, and stick to them. Get help to do so if you need to. Good luck.