To not understand this rule (thread from a thread)

[Summerblaze]

I have just been reading the nursery lunch thread and it made me think of this rule that was sent on a note via my DD's book bag.

I have no knowledge of this so please don't flame me as I am really not sure if IABU or not.

My DD is a junior in Year 3 (7/8). We had a note to ask if we could make sure that we didn't send anything with nuts etc in.

Firstly, my dd eats her own packed lunch and she is not allergic to nuts. Surely kids who have nut allergies and are this age, know not to eat other peoples packed lunch. What about chocolate biscuits which say that they MAY contain nuts.

I do understand the rule for nurseries and infants but for juniors surely not.

Apology accepted.

I don't know of anyone that DD knows who has any allergies, DD doesn't know anyone either.

This is her 4th year at school and this is the first we have heard of it so I assume this must be a new little infant or a new student.

I am curious because peanuts are not proper nuts, but rather legumes. If someone has a peanut allergy, are they allergic to other legumes? Are they generally allergic to other nuts? And if so, why?

iirc the anafalaxis (sp?) campaign actively advise against keeping environments nut free as this creates potential complacency, the understanding being that if children aren't raised to be aware of the issue they don't actually learn to take responsibility for managing their own alergies iyswim.

In terms of how people manage, generally someone who is that severely alergic to anything would carry an eppipen with adrenalin that they could use in the event they came into contact with whatever it is they were allergic to.

Generally children do need to learn to manage their allergies from an early age but sometimes it's just easier to take the allergin out of the picture. When ds was at preschool we had a severely nut-allergic child in the class. His mum was fab - she never made any insistance that he be treated any differently - she carried an eppipen at all times... I had been to birthday parties where peanut butter sandwiches were served and she just used to keep a very careful eye.. But when it came time for ds' party I was faced with the prospect of having a nut-allergic child on my watch. Never once did the mum ask if I could make the party a nut-free one, but from my own perspective I sure as hell didn't want someone else's child's anafalactic response on my conscience, so it was an easy decision for me to make to just not have any particular nut-based products at the party, and I gave his mum the boxes to other biscuits etc so she could pre-emptively check they were ok.

just turning this debate slightly, my DD (4, just started reception) is severely allergic to cows milk, will react on contact and will probably need to be rushed to A&E should she eat anything with it in.

there are 4 children at her school with epipens (out of over 500 children) but as far as I know only 1 child is allergic to nuts/peanuts. However, the school has a nut ban policy in place and parents are regularly reminded not to put nut bearing food in lunchboxes. What have they done about banning dairy goods to help protect my daughter - nothing, because of course it would be unrealistic and impossible to stop people bringing in yoghurts, cheese straws, chocolate biscuits etc.

Instead they manage her allergy by making her sit at the end of table at lunch next to her teacher and they only let children sit opposite her who have no yoghurts etc in their lunch that could splash everywhere. It's not ideal but there's not really much choice.

The subject of nut bans regularly comes up on MN and you will find that for every parent of a nut allergic DC crying out for a school nut ban there will be another one asking not to put one in place. I don't think people will ever agree on this one!

I once ate a couple of nuts in the morning. After lunch a couple of hours later I went into town where I went into a large hall like a school hall. Within seconds of me walking into the hall, one of my friends who was the other side of the room could tell I had eaten them. She was beginning to react to them.
That's how bad a nut allergy can be.

I think the biggest problem at school is a reaction may not be noticed imediately.

On a picnic, at Alton Towers etc a parent is (hopefully) going to spot signs straight away.

DeWe one of my mom's friend's granddaughters has an allergy that bad, so I am aware they can be that bad. But I guess I don't get how people survive with one that bad.

I guess always have an epipen and fret.

Summerblaze, in answer to your question about items produced in a factory which also handles nuts- I've always assumed that this means that the food manufacturers are legally covering themselves due to the very very small chance of cross-contamination. The problem is that almost all biscuits, cereals, cereal bars, cakes ,chocolates etc now have this warning, so if the school excluded foods with the "may contain nuts" warning, even though they are not an ingredient, it would be excluding vast amounts of food which is extrememly unlikely to contain nuts.

This fascinates me, as ds goes to school in Belgium and they do not have a nut ban in school. This school has kids from Kindergarten right up to Year 13, so a wide age range.

wannaBe and WhereTheWildThings make good points: it's not about the belief that you can create a totally safe life for a child: it's about how much supervision you want to be responsible for as a school and how much disruption they want to risk to the school day

A friend of mine has lost her son this year to nut allergy. If he went into a pub and someone was eating nuts, that would be enough to affect him.

I would find that rule quite easy to follow, bearing what happened to him in mind.

Various points to remember

1. Nuts are relatively easy to eliminate
2. Children HAVE to go to school, whereas their parents can decide whether to take them for a meal etc
3. It's much easier for a parent to spot a reaction, than a teacher in a busy classroom.
4. There are people who only need to breathe nuts to react, other reactions (dairy etc) are more likely to be on touch, eating etc.
5. Ask the school about choc biscuits etc, it may be relevant.

However, it is now thought that total elimination to nuts can make the allergy worse, the latest info indicates that controlled exposure to tiny amounts can help to build up a tolerance. This would not mean it that a nut ban should be lifted.

Many opposing views on nut bans over on the allergy board. My DS2 has multiple severe allergies. To answer some questions:-

1. A nut allergy is different to a peanut allergy (legume) but usually if allergic to one, you avoid the other due to possible cross contamination.
2. A severely allergic child/adult must carry an epipen at ALL times. Always. Can't leave the house without it.
3. Having a child with severe allergies is very stressful. We have many a whinge about it on the allergy board.

Our school does not have a nut ban (or a dairy, sesame, egg, peas & pulses ban)! I agree with this as he has to learn to deal with his condition and, so far, he's very good (he's 3, just 3!). I feel sad sometimes that a huge amount of responsibility is on his little shoulders though . I worry every day he's at pre-school that someone might touch him having not washed their hands.

So, it may be that someone at the school has an air-borne allergy, or it may be that they just don't understand enough about allergies in general.

Anyway...I hope that has answered some of your questions.

Thanks to all who have responded. This has helped my knowledge of nut allergies (among others). As I have said, I have not and will not put any nut products in my DD's packed lunch.

That is so sad, Imperial.

It must be so difficult for parents and children who have this terrifying condition. I hope this thread has helped others to have more compassion for this subject as it has me.

ScareTeeCat says:
What I don't understand is how a person like that copes in the real world. Allergens, whether nuts or other food or what have you, are everywhere. You can't control the environment out in the world. You just can't. So how does someone like that function?

The answer is we cope because we have to.

We allow our children to try to function in the real world because there is no other choice.
Is it terrifying? You bet!
Is it scary hearing other parents saying it's too difficult for them to avoid packing nuts in a packed lunch because they don't try to understand that it might kill your child? Hell yes!

I have a question about nut allergies. If you had someone who would react to the allergen in the air, what would happen if I gave my DS a bag of peanuts on the bus to school, then he went into the classroom with a child who reacted that severly to peanuts that the nuts on my DS's breath would send them into anaphalxis? Would the school have to ban the other dc's parents from EVER feeding their dc nuts? I genuinely don't understand how that one can be policed, or insisted on?

Also, I am wondering how the school would balance out severe nut or seed allergies if they have someone vegetarian in the class, that needs to have nuts and seeds as an important source of protien in their diet - especially, say, someone who was vegetarian for religious reasons?

I don't think you need to balance out a child needing protien (there are plenty of other sources anyway) with a child possibly dying.

Bit of a no-brainer really.

I have a friend/former work colleague who has a severe allergy to oranges.

I remember her becoming very ill three or four offices along the corridor after I had eaten an orange and thrown the peel in the bin in my office. It was a rather horrible experience - I never ate oranges again in the building again.

There are plenty of other things for people to eat - really not worth taking a risk in my opinion. Good to hear that schools take this seriously - but a shame that not all parents do.

I personally DO take it seriously - otherwise I wouldn't be worrying about whether it is OK to feed my dc food containing nuts/seeds on the journey to school? I understand that the school has said that it is not allowed on the school site - but would they be allowed to tell OTHER dc's parents that they are not allowed to feed their dc nut/seed products for breakfast or as a snack on their journey to school?

How would that be practical? Some people (like me) would be too worried about causing a reaction, so may not feed their dc ANY nut products except in school holidays - but others may not give a figgy hoot about other people's dc, and may quite happily chuck peanut butter on toast at their dc to eat on their way to school - which means the child has no way of washing hands, so could be spreading the allergen everywhere.

How would a school be able to police the OTHER children's diet OUTSIDE the school? Would there be a situation where the school could ban anyone from ever eating nuts due to someone else's severe allergy?

Not everyone is likely to worry enough about something like this, OK I am, and I haven't given my dc peanut butter for breakfast since they have been at school with this child, through my own choice - but what about others that may NOT worry about this? How could it be policed if it was not happening on the school grounds? And who would be classed as being to blame (in law) if something happened to the dc that had the allergy because of something another, say, 4yo in reception, had peanut butter on toast for brekkie?

Huntycat - my son has a dairy allergy. We are vegetarian. Therefore, with the exception of a hard boiled egg once in a while he takes a vegan lunchbox to school every day. He is 3.

Yes, it would be easier for me if I could send nuts in his lunchbox - they are a quick, easy source of protein for him and he loves them. But obviously I don't because it's a school rule and that's that. Having said that, because I know there are currently no children in nursery who have nut allergies I do let him have peanut butter toast for breakfast.

He has hummus or avocado sandwiches and a load of fruit, salad and crackers.

A few of these threads around at the moment. Worth reading this before you come out in favour of school nut bans:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1324730-to-be-fed-up-with-allergic-children-being-blamed-for-school-lunchbox-policies

To start i love peanuts... my sis has had a peanut allergy all her life she is now 28. She must carry epipen with her at all times etc..

She can eat most bisuits, choc, etc, but has to be more careful with chinese sauces.

She thought she was 'growing out' of the allergy until two weeks ago, the new person in work had a bag of opened (but well tied) peanuts in her handbag, under the desk at the other side of the room. all her other colleagues are aware of her allergy. dsis reacted etc by her face and throat swelling, she was lucky she new what was happening and was able to get out before it got life threatening. basically her throat would close and she wouldn't be able to breath.

we use to keep her going asking her to play russian roulette with a bag of revels!

generally as a rule don't sent nuts of any sort into school etc. if your dc love them let them eat them at home.

Huntycat - I get exactly where you are coming from. Our school now has two children who are anaphalactically allergic to nuts. And they have indeed asked all parents of children in the two particular classes involved to not to feed their children nut based products for breakfast during term time. They have acknowledged that it can only be a request but they are very clear that either of these two children could in fact die if they come into skin or skin-to-skin contact with nuts. So it puts an incredible obligation on the parents in those classes.