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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that all the housemates should pay council tax?

60 replies

InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 09:02

This is none of my business but I want to put it to the MN jury anyway :)

Background: My brother shares a house with 5 other people. Four work, including my brother, and two are students. They've all known eachother since uni and have houseshared before with no problems.

They moved into a new house together a couple of months ago and now the two students are refusing to contribute towards the council tax payment. Their argument is that students don't have to pay council tax if they are living by themselves or with other students, so they shouldn't have to pay just because they're living with friends who aren't students. (As they are living in a house where the majority work, this exemption does not apply, nor is there any reduction in the amount payable). The working housemates are a bit like this Confused and don't see why they should subsidise their friends' living costs.

Both sides are absolutely convinced that they are right. Neither side will back down on principle and it sounds to me like there could be a major falling-out over this, which would be a crying shame as they've been such good friends for years.

AIBU to think that all the housemates should contribute equally to the council tax and that if the two students didn't want to pay, they shouldn't have agreed to the house share?

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadyHallows · 19/10/2011 09:39

This is actually equivalent to moving into a house and refuse to pay the share of the tv license because "I dont watch the tv, but the others do". ....

Or, "I dont want to pay a share of the gas bill, I never heat my room"

Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 09:41

macsaid yes, it makes a differnce in that the students won't be held liable if the CT isn't paid, but not in terms of house much CT is charged on the house. There is no discount for having 2 students in it.

OP posts:
girlywhirly · 19/10/2011 09:42

Who is the owner/landlord? What does the rental agreement/contract say? IMO, the landlord/owner's decision should be final. I find it hard to believe that this wasn't agreed by the student tenants when they decided to live there.

Even if people are friends, that is no excuse not to have written contracts when sharing a property, so that everyone knows what is expected of them, and what they are obliged to pay for before they take the room.

scaryteacher · 19/10/2011 09:44

It also depends on the kind of tenancy they have and if the house is a HIMO.

If all their names are on the tenancy agreement and they can each access all parts of the property, then they are each equally liable. The students are liable, as there is only a discount or exemption if it is one student, one non-student (25% discount) or all students (100% exemption).

If they each have a separate tenancy agreement and only pay rent for their little bit of the property (locks on bedroom doors), can only access communal kitchen/bathroom, then the l/l is liable for the CTAX under the Hierarchy of Liability.

QuintessentialShadyHallows · 19/10/2011 09:44

There are several benefits to the students in the set up:

  1. They get to share a large house rather than a dorm or other designated student accommodation.
  2. They get to share with friends rather than find a house share with strangers.

There are no such benefits to the working people, in fact:

  1. They have a larger house to heat
  2. They have a larger house quite possibly in a different bracket for council tax and therefore a higher council tax bill

The students therefore need to move out (if the landlord agree to release them from the contract) so that the working people can find other housemates.

Or they all move out and the working people find a smaller house to share.

At the moment the working people are subsidizing the students, and this is not fair.

scaryteacher · 19/10/2011 09:46

The students will be held liable if the CT isn't paid, if they are on a joint tenancy agreement, as they are each jointly/severally liable for the bill, and they will get reminders and summonses just like everyone else in the property.

vj32 · 19/10/2011 09:48

Students are exempt from council tax, regardless of where they live.
They all seem a bit clueless about houseshares. They will probably find loads of other stuff to argue about too. I wouldn't get involved.

vj32 · 19/10/2011 09:50

Just make sure it gets paid - you can get chased for council tax for years.

Thzumbazombiewitch · 19/10/2011 09:50

Are the students also working? Do they have any income apart from student loan?

If they are working at all then they should pay.

If they're not, perhaps they could agree to pay a half share each - so split the bill 5 ways instead of 6, and the 2 students pay half of the fifth share. That way the 4 workers don't pay as much, the 2 students don't pay a full share and it will either please everyone or no one!

Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 09:51

It's definitely the housemates' responsibility to pay CT, not the LL's. They could appeal to the LL to make a decision but if I were the LL I'd tell them all to grow up and sort it out themselves, which lands us back at square 1.

I don't think there is any kind of written contract other than the tenancy agreement. As I said in the OP, they have house-shared before from the 2nd year on uni onwards so I think they all thought that knew eachother's annoying quirks and didn't expect anything major to come up. Maybe it was naive but hey, that's the romance of being 22 :)

OP posts:
Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 09:52

Thzumba I would accept that solution if it was my houseshare.

OP posts:
MrsHuxtable · 19/10/2011 09:54

I've also shared accomodation with students and non-students and students are disregarded. They don't have to pay.

Could it be different for different council areas?

JarethTheGoblinKing · 19/10/2011 09:55

www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/LifeAtUniversityOrCollege/DG_071488

"Who is responsible for paying the bill?
While households can decide among themselves who contributes what, the law sets out who is actually responsible for paying the bill.
Members of a household are divided into categories - owner-occupier, tenant and so on - and for most households the person responsible is the one who appears nearest the top of the list which you can find in ?Council Tax - who pays and how much?.
If there are two or more household members who fall into the same category, they?re usually jointly responsible for paying the whole bill.
But the rules are different if you?re considered a full-time student or not ?counted? because you?re in education or training. In these circumstances, you can only be held responsible if you - and only you - are in a category that?s higher up the list than all other members of your household (for example, you?re an owner-occupier and everyone else is a tenant)."

Are they sure that they're not exempt? Confused

sugarandspiceandallthingsnice · 19/10/2011 09:56

Do you no longer get a discount if you are a student and share a house with a non student? I shared a house with a working friend a few years ago and by taking in proof of full time student course we got 25% off the bill.

screamingskull · 19/10/2011 09:57

i was just about to say if they have shared before, what way was it worked then???

It's not as though they would never have spoke / thought about CT before, i would have thought?

Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 09:58

They would get a 10% discount if 5 of them were students and one worked. As it is, there is no discount.

OP posts:
Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 09:58

When they houseshared before, either all were working or all were students. They've never had this mix before as far as I can remember.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadyHallows · 19/10/2011 09:58

Well, actually, the way I read the direct gov website, students are exempt, but the household can get discounts to their bill if there are students also living there. But I think this discount dwindles if there are 4 adults and 2 "not counted for council tax".

MrsHuxtable · 19/10/2011 09:59

But I also agree that they didn't think this through.
I bet they ALL assumed at the start the students wouldn't have to pay therefore didn't see a problem but now that they didn't get a council tax reduction changed their minds.

screamingskull · 19/10/2011 10:03

but if they have "all known each other since uni", then regardles if they were working or not, while being there they were still able to get the 25% discount...so they must have been discounted in the uni days no?

Therefore must have known about students/discounts

girlywhirly · 19/10/2011 10:04

I think the two students should consider the increase in the amount of council tax for renting a house for 6 as opposed to a house for 4 tenants. Then they have the choice to pay, or find somewhere else (an all student let) to rent. Realistically, if they weren't students and were working the problem wouldn't exist.

There is fault on all sides here.

screamingskull · 19/10/2011 10:05

yes MrsH i agree....they all knew about it but now are not getting the discount they are wanting the two students to pay a share.

Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 10:06

While all of them were students, they didn't have to pay any council tax. When all of them finished uni and started working last year, they all paid the full whack. In the situation they're in now, council tax is charged at the full rate on the house that they share. There is no discount.

OP posts:
Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 10:06

I don't know what they thought would happen about council tax before they signed the lease. I'm only the interfering sister :)

OP posts:
Original poster
InterferingSister · 19/10/2011 10:08

Oops, hit post too soon.

If there was a discount, I'm sure they would have no problem with the students not paying council tax and would share the reduced cost the 4 workers. As it is though, there is no discount at all but the students are asking them to act as though there is. IMO that is freeloading but my opinion isn't at all relevant here.

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