to expect ds's reception teacher to focus more on social skills than writing skills

[lecce]

I will admit to feeling a little deflated and therefore emotional after ds's first parents' evening and I would appreciate some opinions on what dh and I intend to say in a follow-up appointment we have arranged for Monday.

ds (4.7) is very vocal and loud at home and with people he knows. He began speaking in sentences at 18 months and has not shut up since! He used to go to pre-school but he didn't like it and didn't seem to be mixing well with other children so we took him out (dh is a sahd so it seemed silly to have him there if he wasn't enjoying it.)

We don't know people nearby with dc of a similar age apart from one girl who dh and the dc met in the park 6 months ago and have been meeting up with ever since - my point is ds doesn't have many friends. Since the age of 2 he has been keen to play with other children in playgrounds but has had many setbacks - at first children his own age were so much less verbal than him that it put him off when they didn't reply to him.

More recently they have caught him up but he seems to have built up some sort of social anxiety and, though very keen indeed to play with other children, gets anxious about how to begin and is very upset if he perceives rejection. Despite this, many times he does manage to hook with some random child in a park and then he has a whale of a time and becomes loud and excited (just the right side of excited, I think.) What I am saying here is that he likes other children and enjoys playing.

For these reasons we were happy to think of him starting school because we hoped he would make some friends. We were also aware that he may be at a disadvantage to others in this area as many children his age already seem to have lots of friends. Since he started, I have asked him about the other children and he has mentioned a few names but not much detail.

At parents' evening the teacher seemed concerned that he cannot write his name, asked us whether we have pens and paper in the house , asked us whether we have the telly on loudly all the time but was unable to tell me about his social skills. When I asked her who he plays with she called him over to ask him - I've done that myself ffs. AIBU to expect her to be able to comment on this herself? He mentioned one name of a child he plays with and she said, "Ah yes, another silent one!"

I am so worried that the two of them have been allowed to shut themselves off from the rest of the group while the noisy ones get all the attention. AIBU to think the teacher should be encouraging the whole group to intergrate and not just accepting that the quiet ones will go off on their own? I am not at all concerned (well, maybe just a little bit when I saw some of the other's work ) that he cannot write his name as I know he will do so in time, but I am getting increasingly worried about his social skills.

WWBU to tell her we are not worried about his writing but would like to know what they are doing to help him intergrate with the rest of the group?

Sorry for the length of this - would love some advice!

The school can only do so much to encourage children to socialise though and you certainly seem to be expecting a lot from the school.

As others have said now is the time for you to start inviting other children around to play and giving your son the chance to socialise with them.

Hi. My DS started reception in September. He can't write his own name. I know he will be able to one day. I'm not worried about this and can't understand some of the posts that suggest you should be worried about this. Me and my DP made a deliberate decision not to do any 'learning to read and write' before he started school because if the approach was different or he had already mastered skills that were being taught he would become bored/confused. When I had a meeting with his teacher before he started she welcomed this approach and said it's surprising how many parents 'push 'their children to read and write before they start school so that they are ahead. As DS's teacher said 'that is our job' (to teach them to read and write). I teach literacy FWIW.
With regard to your DS making friends I would let him find his feet. Like your DS mine was at home with me or his dad .He didn't go to nursery because he didn't like it so like you we didn't see the point as one of us was at home. We were worried more about him making friends than literacy skills. We also have moved to a new area so he had no existing friendships which many of the children in his class have. He is slowly finding his feet and I know he plays with other children but he can't really name them. I think the teacher should know who he plays with and that they should be encouraging him to play with other children. I think that a happy child will learn. An unhappy child won't. The school should be taking a holistic approach because education isn't just about literacy.

MrBloomsNursery Why is writing so important for 4 year olds?? Many just ca and, can't do it yet. I appreciate your suggestion about clubs but ds is already in 2 and, while he certainly enjoys them, they're not much good for making friends as they are there for a limited time, to do a specific activity and there is no real opportunity for them to chat and play freely. Reception, on the other hand, is fluid and affords, or should, plenty of opportunity for them to mix and play.

School isn't the place for teachers to push social skills Well wtf are we sending 4 yr olds there for, then?

Honestly I think most dc can read/write their name if nothing else before they start reception.Socialising usually comes mainly from home-coffee with other mums,play dates etc.

Funnily enough most parents do send their children to school to learn the academic stuff [hhmm] .

Reception as you say yourself offers opportunities for children to make friends and mix with a variety of others. School will "socialise" in as much it will encourage children away from "undesirable" behaviour and encourage those who are left out/shy/quiet to join in the group. It won't help a child to make friends per se.

As I said up thread, invite some children home for tea (1 at a time). DS's Reception teacher told us this was the single thing that made the most difference in children making friends.

Yes because everyone is a SAHM with a lovely cosy circle of friends nearby, alll with dc the same age as their own. Very helpful

pranma do you have evidence that most dc can read/write their name if nothing else before they start reception because I don't think that's true. Not parents live the 'suburban dream' of having coffee mornings or people to make play dates with. Strangely, not all people live the same lives.

But in your OP you said your DH is a SAHD so that makes your point invalid really doesn't it? He could have took him to places to regulary socialise with the same children, he could have stayed at pre school.

You chose not to and that is your choice but then you can't complain when people suggest that may have been good for him if you expect him to have the skills immediatly when being thrown into a new situation.

lecce x-post

lecce I apologise if I come across as a bit of moody mare (I really do apologise).

I never did that whole play group shite; I tried it but it fried my brain. Some people just arent sociable. Im not. Or perhaps, Im selectively sociable.

Your whole post is projecting that your child is loud at home, likes adults and has problems with peers. Of course he does - he hasn't had a lot of social interaction with his own peer group.So he's going to stand back, watch and then join in once he's sussed the situation.

Without going up the OMG-he-cant-write-therefrore-he-has-LD avenue - unless there is very good reason, then school will look at him - and this is quite simply in 2 years he will be doing his SATS and that demands lovely cursive writing.

You are in horror - Im in horror - but thats the way it is. SATS mean results. Results mean a sought after school. What do schools want? Over subscription and the ability to pick and choose. What causes over subscription and the moniker of a sought after school? good SATS results.

Do you see how everything is so interlinked? And who drives this perpetual cycle? other parents! (oh and the league tables, that parents fingertippingly analyse.)

FWIW - SATS should be banned , outlawed and set fire to!

Sorry, that last post was a reply to pranma

I know playdates are considered important but the problem is that I work ft and dh, as well as being a man while most of the other parents are women, has MS and gets pretty tired. It would be he who would have to 'run' the playdate and I am worried that it might prove a bit too stressful - we have a 2 yr old as well. I just want to add that he is not disbaled and has no MS symtoms at all at the moment, other than the tiredness, but he is always pretty wiped out when I get back and I just worry that he would be even more wiped out if he had three, not two for a couple of hours.

However, he has mentioned inviting one particualr child back so that may well be the way forward.

But, out of interest, if playdates are so vital to dc's social skills, what happens in families where both parents work f/t and neither have much contact with the other parents at school?

When both parents work full time chances are the children have attended nursery/child minder from a young age so develop social skills through them!

In some cases grandparents do the "school run" and are happy to have others round to play occasionally (usually in exchange for an 'evening off' at a later date!)

If there is no other family to do the school run then normally its after school club/child minder which again are times for them to socialise.

If you arent working/have no time constraints then you need to start doing the 'home for tea' thing. Or extracurricular clubs with children with a common interest.

*cant personally abide the phrase 'play date' .

Weekend playdates.
Party invites.
Suggest going to the park after school with specific child and parent.

I had little contact with other parents when DS was in Reception. I genuinely believe that not having friends round to play (or any contact out of school) did delay DS making friends - note I say "delay" not stop.

All children have different personalities of course. DD seems to gather friends to her whatever she does, and would have a group of them almost despite the interventions of others around her.

troisgarcons Thank you for that, I think I was pretty snappy too .

I totally agree with you about SATS and, as a secondary school English teacher, would add that they give skewed results and, in some cases, totally turn children off learning [ sad].

I have always vowed that my child will not be sacraficed on the alter of SATS (or something equally dramatic like that, have had wine...)

I do appreciate all replies and think that most of you are right, he is probably just finding his feet and I shoul calm-the-fuck-down. doesn't help that I really didn't warm to the teacher, though, luckily she only teaches him two days a week and we are seeing the other one on Monday.

troisgarcons we moved out of London for this reason. We looked at lots and lots of schools. I read lots of Ofsted reports and looked at SATs scores. I chose a school with a '3' in its last Ofsted and broadly average SATs. However, the school did have a '1' inits last Ofsted for'pastoral care' and a nice personal statement from the inspector about the 'caring' nature of the children. This is the most important aspect of what makes a school 'good' in my opinion. As I said up post, a happy child will learn. Our priority is for our child to be happy. He is doing well and learning lots. He can't write his name but is having a lovely time. The school aren't worried about this and nor are we. Their priority at reception is that the children are happy, engaged and able to wipe their own bottom.

I am a Foundation teacher and it would not occur to me to berate a parent for their child not being able to spell their name and consider that to be largely my job but enlist the parents help at home to support activities and games that were happening in school and to replicate at home. All 6 areas of learning are equally important in the early years and socialising is very important in a child's development. Often academic skills are considered more important than others so congratulations to you op to be concerned for your child's social skills. I am still concerned about my daughter's social skills in ks1. we all just want what is best for our children so don't be afraid to speak to your child's teacher (politely and calmly of course) and explain your concerns. If she has anything about her she will understand her duty as and early years teacher. Its not called Foundation without good reason!

Hi Lecce, whilst I think you have been a bit snippy with people that didn't immediately agree with your viewpoint I understand your concerns. For what it's worth, my daughter can't write her name yet (it's 9 letters who can blame her) and as of yet her teachers aren't wringing their hands in despair at her backwardness lol.

She is also a watcher until she knows what's going on and always has been despite going to nursery 2 days + a week since she was 18 months. That said, after a term and a half in this class (she went for the summer term part time) she has clicked with a few others (helped by me approaching random strangers - completely against my nature- having them over for tea on the day I don't work) and is definitely gaining in confidence. What I'm taking a long time to say is that probably it will click -just give him time.

lecce, tbh i think your dh could have tried alot harder with the social side of things.i don't think the writing is an issue at this early stage.

but the teacher sounds like a bitof knobtoo, esp wrt to tv and paper questions, pretty rude imo.

sounds like your got a bit of an uphil struggle, which considering your dh is a sahd, needs to pull his socks up imo

I think making friends in the park is a very different way of trying to learn social skills when your child had the opportunity of nursery/preschool from the age of 3.

I'm sure everything will work out fine - but your family situation must be very unusual these days. Your DC started school without the experience of nursery and all the opportunities that were offered there.

Psychologist, Oliver James, believes that very young children don't want to play with other children and are not happy playing with other children. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Your son is in a social setting now and play dates can be arranged. Parenting can be such a guilty business for all parents-everyone has their own issues!
You've noticed a need now so act on it now, don't berate yourself for things in hindsight - its not the end of the world. As long as he's been loved and cared for, everything else can be sorted!

Your DC is probably just settling in. Unless they had made friends before school, DCs of this age after 6 weeks wouldn't usually have a best friend. As long as he is interacting and playing with the other children he should be fine.

I wonder if the teacher ineptly asked about the tv because he is relatively quiet at school. Sometimes loud tvs can discourage kids from talking. But some kids, even with great social skills, will be loud at home and fairly quiet at school.

As long as he seems happy and is mixing with other children, at this age, he should be fine.

Remember as he hasn't been to nursery longer term, he isn't used to the kind of group care you get in a school. If you started a job where the culture of working was very different to what you were used to, you may be more reserved and quietier than you normally are until you had found your feet. But you would probably settle in fine.

Honestly I think there is nothing to worry about at this stage - except perhaps a teacher who is a bit inept at dealing with parents.

I agree that very young children don't really play with other children. What they do is play next to other children with the occasional interaction with other kids.

If he didnt got to preschool he will probably be a bit behind the ones who did. DD1 learnt how to write her name by the time she left preschool. The teacher she had in reception was fantastic, very old school and had worked at the school for 30 years. She came on leaps and bounds in reception.

DD2 never liked preschool and some of the girls were really pally and so were their mams. All her friends went to a different primary and the pally ones went to hers. She found it hard to find her feet and has always struggled at school. She is loud at home but very quiet at school.

She had a teacher in reception in her first year of teaching as the other one had retired. She got very little work home compared to dd1. Roll on yr1 and the teacher at parents evening said she was concerned about the lack of basic knowledge some of the class had compared to previous years.

I am in the process of having dd2 tested for dyslexia so its hard to make a comparison between the 2 but i know that dd1 was pushed more in reception than dd2. She is in yr 5 and sails through school doing year 6 work.

I really do believe the teacher she had in reception made a world of difference. I also think that being at pre school gives them a head start on the ones who dont go.

I wouldnt worry too much as he will probably catch up. Just do what others have said.

Some kids do find school hard but dont worry hes only 4, next year could be completely different