to want to lie to this woman because I am a complete wimp?

[littlemisssarcastic]

A mum I have become friendly with wants DD and I to go swimming with her and her DC.
I don't want to go, I have spent weeks making excuses not to go, but it hasn't had the desired effect...which is to get her to stop asking me.

I am not even sure I like this woman anymore. I haven't been friendly with her for long, yet she tells me how to live my life. If she is not telling me what I should be doing, she is explaining how she is sick of listening to this friend, that friend or the other friend because none of them do as she thinks they should do. She is either desperate to know how much some friends husbands are earning (Doesn't interest me) or she is helping friends by telling them what a waste of oxygen their partners are. (People in greenhouses shouldn't throw stones comes to mind as far as she is concerned.) or she is telling people how they should live their lives.

She has also proper laughed out loud at me when I was telling her some problems I was having. I tried and tried, but could not see the funny side. I was telling her I was having some money difficulties, to the point that I could not sleep and thought I was going to lose my house.

Anyway, I have always been friendly with her, but her DP was out of work for a while and she hardly saw anyone. She spent months and months while he was unemployed not even texting or speaking to her friends. Suddenly, he has got a job, and now works at the weekend, so she is free to do stuff again, as in the swimming.

I feel like I have been dropped while her DP is around, and now I am being picked back up again so I can take her and her DC swimming.

Because of her DP's irregular working pattern, she no longer invites anyone back to hers, she invites herself to everyone elses (I'm inviting myself to yours for tea and chat.) because her DP might turn up at home. All her friends seem to be second thoughts all of the time, yet she relies on her friends to take her wherever she needs to go, because her DP doesn't want to take her.

I suppose I am just tired of her overbearing personality and her gripes about other peoples lives and partners, and I don't want the barrage of questions about why I don't want to do XYZ...because I bloody don't....I don't want to take you to town only for you to spend the whole time on the phone asking your DP what he wants and then telling me we're going to this shop/that shop the other shop to get what your DP wants, as well as you giving me a running commentary on what I should be buying/thinking/doing etc etc because your DP can't be arsed to get out of bed and go to the shops with you. I don't want to listen to hours and hours of your opinions on other peoples partnerships, only to finish every bloody sentence with My DP might be selfish/lazy/meanspirited/impatient/verbally abusive/controlling/disrespectful but he's not as bad as Friend A's DP. I wouldn't put up with him, I'd tell him to get lost etc etc etc

How the hell do I distance myself from this woman without appearing rude or cold?

I have been told I am going swimming with her this weekned and I wont be letting her down will I?
Of course I said Nooooooooo, I wont let you down...It's a date.

Now I am spending every waking moment thinking of how to get out of it for the umpteenth time. btw, she asked me this morning.

Any thoughts??

littlemiss just tell her something has come up and you can't do it, and don't let yourself in that position again. Be assertive, grow a pair

Amor I see what you are saying, her DP is a controlling cock imo, although I don't tell her what I think because she doesn't want to hear it. What I don't understand is the need to run everyone else's relationships/lives down if hers is so bad??

She can't afford to go out, you are right, because her DP controls all of the money and doesn't let her have any. She is allowed to socialise though....her DP stays in bed when he's not working, and prefers her and her child out of the house. It is all very sad I know. The only reason she doesn't go out when he is out of work/home from work is because she feels bad about leaving him at home alone in case he wants anything. He wants her to go out so he can sleep but she actually wants to be there for him.

She will tell her friends she will meet them/see them etc but we all have to wait for her to ring her DP to ask him if he needs her for anything first?? She says things like 'I am too strong minded to ever end up in an abusive relationship, I just feel so sorry for poor DP'

Good luck littlemiss and thenightsky's suggestion is a good one. A nasty inner ear infection can keep someone out of the swimming pool for weeks!

piglet You are right...I wonder if there's a lotion I can buy at Boots to encourage me to grow a pair.

Well, I do have athletes foot atm. (TMI sorry) I just feel bad for constantly making excuses and I'm sure she knows they are all excuses.

I used to be very timid, but lifes knocks and scrapes made me wise up, and fed up of people taking advantage. I will quite happily come round to yours and tell her for you

what do you care, just as long as you don't go swimming with her thats the main thing. Tell her you have bad thrush

Please do piglet.

If you could accompany me everywhere for the next X amount of years and personally coach me, I'd be eternally grateful. OTOH, I could look at this thread whenever I have any further problems.

I'm probably projecting my situation but it sounds like her DH has a (?drink/drug) problem. She is acting like the classic codependent - trying to control everything in her environment because she can't control her DH's behaviour. Right down to not having people round, and trying to get out of the house every chance she gets.

Even if that was the case - this is Not. Your. Problem. You are allowed to say 'Something's come up and we can't make it to the swimming' without telling her what it is. If she persists and asks what, just say something like 'I'm afraid that's not your business! ha ha smile' and leave it at that.

There are some really good websites on assertiveness and if you have time, try and have a read - I'm not exaggerating when I say it changed my life! It gets easier every time as well.

Good luck, you sound absolutely lovely and you don't need this person bringing you down.

I will be happy to oblige . Think positive, think 'i will not be taken advantage of again'

Calyx I hadn't considered that but it makes alot of sense.

piglet That shall be my new mantra, because I don't actually like myself atm for being this way.

I have had a relationship like this and it was hellish. I am a strong person usually but she really got to me. She was so controlling. I had to make a firm decision to get her out of my life. Well, she is not out, out but not as in as before.

I said 'no' and then I stopped talking. Shall we have a coffee this morning? No. It was agony but she hardly ever asked me why and if she did I just said I had loads to do or similar.

If she asked/commanded me to attend things I said things like

'I don't do the aquarium' or 'I can't stand swimming, it's bloody awful' or 'wine bar? It's not the 90's'. It was more about her knowing that I didn't think she was better than me, or more knowledgeable. This seemed to be the source of all her power.

She would tell me how to drive, routes, how closely I had parked to the kerb three weeks on Wednesday, how I shouldn't need to buy milk as I had bought it two days ago. It got to the point I was thinking about where to park my car at school so that she wouldn't have something to say about it.

Amor no-one wants to tell her to tell the friend to fuck off. OP sounds upset and stressed about this and we are trying to help her to be assertive, which is self-protective.

The friend and her DH are NOT OP's problem. If the friend needs help there are counselling services, divorce lawyers etc. If the friend had gone to OP and said 'my DP is controlling/abusive/whatever then she would be asking for help and OP would then help in whatever way she could. However she seems to be making the point that her DH is not abusive etc etc, so either she is in denial or doesn't know how it looks to others. I have got into trouble in the past for trying to help people who haven't asked for help.

The point of the thread is OP not wanting to upset her friend although she doesn't want to go swimming. The friend railroaded the invite which is rude in itself and letting that kind of thing go on is making a rod for your own back etc.

You could save yourself so much hassle if you just say

' i do not really want to do anything with you because i do not really like you'

I do sort of agree with AmorYCohetes, in that I really think you need actually say what you mean.

• 'Look, I'm going to be honest, I hate swimming and don't want to do it now or ever, so let's just leave it'.

• 'I don't want to talk about that, no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors and it's not fair to gossip'. Yada yada, etc, etc.

Thick-skinned people need this sort of level of assertiveness. You're at pains to walk on eggshells round her, while she does the bull-in-the-china-shop routine with you. She doesn't care about your sensibilities, so why take such care over hers?

Maybe, if you take this route, she might actually back off a bit, and end up being an alright person that you don't mind spending small doses of time with. Which, if she really is in a shitty a situation as it sounds like she is,wouldd be a good thing if and when she needs support.

As it is, you're not putting any boundaries up; she's riding roughshod and has no respect for you since you keep letting her get away with being an arse. Demand respect and she might start to give it - people treat us as well or as badly as we allow them to (not placing the blame or onus on the victim here; just trying to say that you have some control here, it doesn't need to be total acceptance and passivity from your side).

On the other hand, she might not. But at least you will have given her a chance to step up to the plate and behave like normal, socially-aware human being before dumping her off.

Bottom line is: she is behaving like a bully, and it's not acceptable. Just because she is turn is clearly also being bullied doesn't mean you have to put up with her doing it.

Another one here agreeing with Amor. Apologies, probably not what you want to hear, but from the way you describe her life I sort of feel sorry for her.

Yes, she may be controlling, bullying even, but as someone (sorry, can't remember who) said, this is often a sign of lack of control in another area of her life, or being bullied herself.

I was wondering if her DH was suffering from depression and she doesn't know how to respond properly to him.

Try this - once, when getting to know someone at college, I wanted to broach the subject of him being gay without coming out and saying 'btw, are you gay'. It was obvious he wanted to mention it but he didn't know how people would react and he didn't want to risk losing new friends. So I and a couple of others started talking about other gay people we knew in a positive way. From this he knew we were ok with it and so told us and was comfortable talking about his life with us.

You could talk to her in any number of ways about depression/abuse and see how she reacts, see if she opens up about problems at home. Obviously she might not and therefore you have the right to dump her but give her a chance first. She might be crying out for help.

Hmm, she doesn't see/speak to friends while her dp is around, she doesn't invite friends to her house if he is likely to be there, or turn up. She spends her whole time telling friends what they should be doing.

I wonder if she is scared of her dp. The not inviting friends back, maybe he will go mad. Not talking to friends when he was unemployed, perhaps he was controlling her movements? Telling everyone what to do, perhaps that is what she lives with & is so controlled that she feels she needs to control others too?

I am not excusing her but she maybe she is like this as she has no/little control of her life, but she ends up coming across as too needy!

Have you texted her yet OP?

I think she sounds lonely, but I also think that you have to take a step backas she is taking advantage of you, and bullying you a bit. I wouldn't cut her off completely, but I'd be very firm and just say no...

Another one agreeing with Amor!

It's easy to say "well her DP is not my problem", a reflection of our selfish society. As long as we are happy, doesn't matter about the others.

She sounds a bit like my mum - her H is abusive, controlling (MNers would have a field day).

Pull her up on things that bother you. You could even make a joke about her running around after her DP etc etc. Making flimsy excuses to not go swimming won't cut it. She's obviously desperate and doesn't quite know how to socialise otherwise she'd have got the hint.

I agree with Amor that her life sounds awful. It sounds as if she says negative things about other peoples marriages to reassure herself that hers isn't so bad - when it sounds as if it is.

But she is not your problem. Perhaps an assertiveness class might help. Lots of colleges and even some health centres run them.

If she criticises other peoples marriages I'd be tempted to say "at least x can stay in her own house during the day". Or "At least x's DP will take her places sometimes/not control her money, etc" Not to be horrible, although it sounds it, but to try and get her to see that actually her marriage isn't so great.

I'd also be tempted to say I'm sorry I don't want to go swimming/have you back to my house, etc,because I don't like how you constantly criticise others and try to make me do things I don't want to do. But I know this would take a lot of confidence to say.

Agree with Amore her life sound bad, disagree that its remotely your problem - and to be honest from what you have posted about how much this is worrying you think its actually harmful for people to suggest you should engage with this woman ''for her good'.