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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to expect BIL to learn BSL

49 replies

howaboutaspoon · 09/10/2011 23:45

Me and OH are in the process of moving in with each other.
OH is deaf and we use BSL (I already knew a far bit when we met) he can also lip read

Now my family has always made an effort to use BSL (luckily DParents knew a far bit already and SIL is 'fluent') My DNs (2 girls and 1 boy) have discovered it is fun to pick up words etc.

Now BIL has not made an effort at all to learn BSL or even use basic signs eg thank you, please, tea? etc the things you use all the time. Meaning when we are together OH is excluded or we have to 'translate' then reply while signing then translate for BIL what DP has said.

DP is use to this to some extent in RL but within my family it seems very very odd and alien to both him and me.

To some excent I can understand not learning completely when me and DP started going out, but he has been around for a bit we are moving in together now.

AIBU to expect him to learn?

OP posts:

confusedpixie · 10/10/2011 11:15

He may be slightly embarrassed as another poster said due to the emotive expressions, but YANBU to want him to learn, as it excludes both your BIL and your DP somewhat, but YWBU to force him to learn if he doesn't want too.

Saying that, I don't see why anybody would not want to learn another language. I've tried learning BSL but find it really difficult without having a signing partner (and have the same problem with spoken languages too).

EllaDee · 10/10/2011 11:17

Some people just find learning languages harder than others though pixie.

howabout, have you asked him why he doesn't learn? I can see that'd be an awkward conversation but you might be able at least to work out what his main issue is - whether he is nervous, doesn't know where to start, or what.

boohoohoo · 10/10/2011 11:19

Oh, it's your DPs brother, in that case they have obviously managed to communicate ok throughout their life, I would leave well alone if I were you!

ColonelBrandon · 10/10/2011 11:19

Does BIL feel rather inhibited infron of all these other people who can sign? Does your brother, BIL's OH, sign?

slavetofilofax · 10/10/2011 11:21

I wouldn't ask him. If he wanted to learn he would probably have made some effort by now if he wanted to. I think you would just be setting yourself up for him to tell you that he's not interested enough in conversing with your dp to learn a new language.

Which is fair enough, it's not easy to learn a new language, but it would still hurt to hear that from a family member.

ceebie · 10/10/2011 11:21

Don't bother translating for your BIL - let him be the one who feels excluded from conversations.

ColonelBrandon · 10/10/2011 11:21

Have I got this right, you're speaking of your brother's husband/male partner? As was wondering if your brother signed?

boohoohoo · 10/10/2011 11:22

, I'm now really confused, is it your partners brother or a BIL?

MmeLindor. · 10/10/2011 11:25

YABU to expect him to be fluent in BSL

YANBU to expect him to learn a few basic polite phrases

Although that will not actually help you very much.

Learning a few words in a foreign language is not a good comparison - my MIL is German and speaks no English but I could learn to speak German. And did so that we can communicate.

Your OH cannot learn to hear, so it is up to BIL to make the effort.

Ragwort · 10/10/2011 11:28

Totally confused about who is who but if your DP can lip read can he therefore not communicate with BIL via lip reading? I have a deaf friend who lip reads very well and to be honest I have never even thought about whether I should learn sign language as well .

WoeIsMeAgain · 10/10/2011 11:28

what did he say when you explained it would be nice if he learned

RickGhastley · 10/10/2011 11:37

Am also totally confused about who is who!

If do think that the BIL should learn to communicate with your DP in some way whether that id BSL or by your DP lipreading.

My DP's family all speak a foreign language as their first language and it is not hard to learn a few bits and pieces so you can at least say hello and have a simple conversation.

Original poster

howaboutaspoon · 11/10/2011 00:15

People seem still to be confused as to who is who so - (sorry for the bold but guess it is easier seen)

I have 2 brothers
One has a wife
the other has a husband. It is this BIL (brothers husband) who is not making any effort to communicate with my OH

DP lip reads in work and outside world etc - I guess it is nice not to have to 'work' so hard while around me, his family and to some level my family. he is BSL then lip reading in preference.

My Brother (the BIL in question husband) knows a little. as my other brother does and at least they make an effort on saying thank you and such things. I don't expect him (BIL) to become fluent (which my 2 brothers themselves aren't and those in my family who can use BSL could use it for diferent reasons before OH came on to scene) but it would be nice if he used please, thank you, hello, cup of tea?

OP posts:

Original poster

howaboutaspoon · 11/10/2011 00:16

didn't go bold - sad :(

OP posts:

EllaDee · 11/10/2011 08:58

It would be nice, but, what does your BIL say about all this?

People vary a lot in how easy they find it to learn things, and lots of people have suggested reasons why he might be finding it hard. Do you actually know what he thinks? It just seems to me that until you have tackled this with him, you don't really know what the issue is and we can't tell how reasonable you are being.

iFailedTheTuringTest · 11/10/2011 10:39

I am slowly learning some basic makaton thanks to Mr tumble, I would say its a bit Shit not to learn at least please, thank you, tea.
I mean, the sign for drink is the gesture most people would use if someone was on the phone and they were making a round of tea in the office.

Though I have worked in very noisy places, so I am used to the 'building site' style sign language (tea, lunch, f*you being the principal signs)

Perhaps bil feels self conscious. In which case, just keep on using it in front of him, and exclude him slightly from conversations. He will soon feel more silly sitting there like a chump, and perhaps start to pick some up.

On a random note, I did see lifeguards at a large noisy water park using bsl to communicate with eachother from across the pool and to the ones on duty up on the slides. Rather clever I thought.

pictish · 11/10/2011 10:44

It would be nice, but you can't expect or demand it from him. It's his choice as to whether or not he wants to learn some sign language for his husband's sister's boyfriend's benefit. It's certainly isn't up to you. Sorry.

If it were me, I would....but he is not me.

ginnybag · 11/10/2011 10:54

Oh dear, what does that confusion say about us? Her brother can't have a husband - that must have been a typo...

Ouch.

OP, you have one fantastically accepting family. Perhaps starting a general conversation about how welcoming everyone is, and how everyone includes everyone else to the best of their abilities might be the way forward.

Primafacie · 11/10/2011 11:05

Mmm, not sure about this one. How is this different from couples where one partner's mother tongue isn't English? If OH was Russian, would you expect BIL to learn Russian? Sure it would be nice, but he doesn't have to, especially since OH can lip read. He (BIL) may be excluded from certain conversations if you hold them in BSL. That's his choice though.

azazello · 11/10/2011 11:51

YWBU to expect him to learn a new language although it would be polite for him to learn some pleasantries and make a bit of an effort.

My BIL is spanish and I can't speak any. He has been staying with us and I'm often left out of hte conversations with him and my sister but it would take so much time to learn enough to join into the conversation properly, I just can't do it.

agedknees · 11/10/2011 12:09

Primafacie - it is very different from a couple where one partner's mother tongue is not English. You can always learn a different language, but you cannot get your hearing back in order to communicate effectively.

2rebecca · 11/10/2011 13:41

It depends how often your brother and his husband see you and your husband. If occasionally then I doubt he'd remember if he did learn a few signs. As your husband lip reads then I suspect he's fairly proficient and to your BIL he maybe feels it is like you marrying an Italian who speaks good English and communication is easier if the Italian speaks English than if he tries a few words of Italian. Agree he could make the effort, but he didn't have a civil partnership with your husband he had one with your brother.

TandB · 11/10/2011 13:48

You could always communicate exclusively in BSL when around BIL and see if he takes the hint when he has no clue what anyone is talking about....

mercibucket · 11/10/2011 13:48

yeah it would be nice but if you're only talking the basics eg thanks, cup of tea?, hello etc, then it's also not exactly making much difference either way is it? he can lip read all those I imagine instead? It probably just seems false and a bit embarrassing to him to learn those few signs.

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