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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Teaching assistants taking lessons

89 replies

wantstosleepnow · 07/10/2011 18:42

I am prepared to be told IABU Wink

My 3 DC all attend the same primary school and it seems that the reception TA takes the class by herself on a friday, and my yr 4 DS says that a TA takes his class on a fri afternoon. This TA is one of the mums from his class, she has only been a TA for a year. I find it hard to believe she could have done enough training to manage a class by herself.

I also think that it undermines the teaching profession to use a TA, as AFAIK they have little or no training at all.

So AIBU to think that TA should be just that, teaching assistants?

OP posts:
jandymaccomesback · 07/10/2011 19:16

It is very common round here for Heads to use TAs to cover for sickness for the first three days until their insurance kicks in, when they will then get a Supply teacher in.It is also normal for HLTAs to cover PPA. It's all about money. I spoke to a teacher the other day who said their school's supply budget hasalready been used up so no one can go off sick until next April Shock

cyb · 07/10/2011 19:18

The Governors at my school said they didnt want HLTA's covering classes . We have ssports providers coming in now to cover- Football coaches for Reception children, and they dont seem to be very experienced with that age group

hocuspontas · 07/10/2011 19:20

But it's not their fault cyb, it's the HTs. It's slave labour and without a dedicated TU, TAs just have to do what they're told. It's against the law but who is going to make a fuss? TA jobs are becoming scarcer, rock the boat and all of a sudden there isn't any funding for you.

hocuspontas · 07/10/2011 19:20

That was to your previous comment.

LynetteScavo · 07/10/2011 19:22

Is it the HT's fault? They have a limited budget and are trying to do the best for the whole school.

monstermissy · 07/10/2011 19:30

My year 5 ds had a nightmare afternoon this week, a boy in his class kicked off, hitting one of the girls and throwing tables about whilst being taught by the ta (the whole class i mean). She had to go to find the actual teacher and rope in other teachers to help escort the whole class into the hall whilst this child was calming down. Is it fair on her wages to have to deal with this sort of situation? Assuming the class was left unattended whilst she went for back up. I think it short changes the workers and the kids really.

pointydog · 07/10/2011 19:33

yanbu.

Qualified teachers should be doing all the teaching. However, English teachers have let this situation happen and there's a big push among LAs for this to happen in Scotland too.

KittyFane · 07/10/2011 19:34

Monster- can you really say that the teacher would have been able to deal with this child on her own or do you think she would have had assistance from her TA had she been in charge.
It's a two person job however you look at it when a child behaves this way.

cyb · 07/10/2011 19:35

hocus, actually its the Governors who said they wanted people other than HLTA's covering PPA.

fedupofnamechanging · 07/10/2011 19:35

I did my PGCE 15 years ago. By the end of the year I was teaching full time (including lesson planning and marking) with very little supervision and no pay. Even having done what was a very intensive course, I still needed a lot more experience before I would have described myself as a good teacher.

A PGCE is very hard for a reason - it guarantees, right at the start of one's career, a certain standard of teaching. It's the thin end of the wedge, in terms of standards, when schools start allowing people without proper teaching qualifications to become responsible for a class. Before you know it, they will be given more and more to do, and standards will decline. They are not specialists in a given subject or specific age group and haven't been taught how to teach. I'm sure there are many TA's who are instinctively very good at teaching, but it is definitely an advantage to know all the theory too.

This is exploitation, pure and simple. The TA didn't sign up to be a teacher, they signed up to be an assistant to the teacher. It is not fair to make them do the teacher's job, but without the teacher's salary.

hiddenhome · 07/10/2011 19:39

We removed our ds2 from an 'Outstanding' primary school because virtually all his lessons were taken by a TA. He hardly ever saw his teacher and all they did was colouring in and watching dvds Sad That was inbetween trashing the toilets and tearing around screaming.....whilst being supervised by an entire gang of TAs.

This was in Year 1 as well Sad

cyb · 07/10/2011 19:39

The same could be said for TA's or other child care proffessionals who work hard to get qualified only to have jobs taken by enthusiastic Mums

KittyFane · 07/10/2011 19:39

Cyb- do you reslly believe that the governors make decisions over and above the HT? :o

cyb · 07/10/2011 19:40

Apparently so at my school

She is always saying she is answerable to them

hocuspontas · 07/10/2011 19:44

Sorry cyb, we're getting confused I think! My comment was in response to 'I think it gives those of us who ARE qualified or worked hard to get our HLTA status a bad name'. Meaning those underqualified TAs probably don't want to do it but are given no choice.

KittyFane · 07/10/2011 19:44

Cyb - hmm... That is what they say, you are right. :o

LindyHemming · 07/10/2011 19:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

troisgarcons · 07/10/2011 19:48

So what do you feel about Faculty Support Supervisors/Cover Supervisors - if you arent familiar with the term they are employed to do the administration for faculties - but part of their job description is covering absent teachers. Theoretically they arent allowed to "teach" just baby sit a class in the absence of the usual teacher, even that is only permissible for 3 days, legally.

A heck of a lot of school rely on FFS & CS. They have no teaching or TA qualifications and I know schools who use them through GCSE and A level classes.

Smallstuff · 07/10/2011 19:50

I think this practice is very unfair. At DCs school they use a HLTA for PPA cover but as there are only two in a 10 class school it means that these TAs tend to teach one afternoon or morning a week in EACH of 5 classes spread over 5 years ( we are a lower school not a primary). I don't care how qualified they are they are not being paid enough to teach 150 kids each once a week with no TA to help them!!! The actual teacher teaches 30 kids with a TA to assist for at least part of the day.
It seems utterly ludicrous to me. Oh and in both DS1 (yr 3) and DS2 (yr 2) classes the same HLTA takes the PPA time and she always seems to be 'landed' with PSHE and RE..... Bet she loves doing that every day for 5 different age groups!!!!!

pointydog · 07/10/2011 20:15

euphemia, I'm with ya!

pointydog · 07/10/2011 20:16

garcons, that is obviously a shit idea. Who wouldn't be against that. I'm surprised it's allowed to happen.

troisgarcons · 07/10/2011 20:19

It happens though, it's the 'cheap' option.

I know of one school, one subject that was taken for a year at As and A2 by a FFS - mins you she was better qualified then the subject teacher as she had an MA in Psychology.

pointydog · 07/10/2011 20:27

It happens because it's allowed to happen

yellowkiwi · 07/10/2011 20:35

I do some supply teaching and one of the schools where I used to get a lot of work has stopped calling. I recently found out why - the TAs are being used to cover when a teacher is absent. So obviously I'm not happy about the school replacing me with cheap, unqualified labour.

The TAs are lovely and very well meaning but they simply aren't qualified to teach. I overheard one teaching a Reception child how to say their sounds but she was saying them incorrectly. Another time I heard a TA helping a child to describe the properties of shape but she was using the wrong the vocabulary and didn't even know the names of some of the shapes herself.

The school often use the TA for the reception class so instead of a teacher and a TA, the children are taught just by a TA and do not have another adult in the room.

InvaderZim · 07/10/2011 20:37

At my last post as a TA, we would cover PPA time (one afternoon a week) in pairs, and would teach a creative lesson of our own devising. (Over a couple of years I did textiles and dying, patchwork, and storytelling.) we'd get paid time and a half too, which was great. As someone who was applying for PGCEs, it showed initiative and experience! It was considered voluntary, but you were heavily encouraged to do it...