To be pissed of with the way dd's school is teaching? or am I out of touch?

[elesbells]

dd3 (five) came home from school upset yesterday saying that the teacher said she can't 'do maths'. I tried to get more out of her but couldn't so, this morning i went in to speak to her teacher.

She told me that dd3 is not very good with sums and she was worried she was falling behind. This confused me as I often do sums with her at home and she is quite able to add and subtract numbers up to 20. (the target being numbers up to 10)

During the conversation it came to light that the school do ALL maths lessons on the computer and in fact, dd3 has trouble using the mouse and that's why she cannot do the maths. The teacher has said she needs more lessons on the computer and needs to learn how to use the mouse correctly.

I know we live in a computer world and she will need to be introduced to it at some point but do the basic teaching methods have to disappear?

now what i want to know is:

aibu to expect five year olds to taught maths in a more traditional way? (if john has two sweets and jane has 3 sweets ect) and not being stuck in front of a p.c.

to worry that computers are being introduced as important at too young an age?

or am I just old and out of touch? (there is a 15 year age gap between dd2 & dd3 so its different to when the older ones were in primary school)

p.s please don't say i'm old....

I was told that my little girl needed to practice her 'mouse skills'.
Since she was only 3.6 I was pretty shocked, and I explained that we 'only' had a laptop at home so perhaps that was why?

She is now just turned 6 and is in year1 where they learn maths on paper.

Elesbells schools just assume that everyone has all sorts of things as standard now and that she?ll have got those skills from playing with them.
They live in a consumer bubble and label families who don?t have these things, or 24/7 access to them, or don?t let their kids treat them as toys, as poor.

I just wish they'd teach them to touch time from Reception. Seeing my year 8 type up lengthy essays in painful.

it never even occurred to me to teach her those skills so young...I really didn't think you could use a computer until you could read properly.

I've always read books to her and made it mummy time when i'm teaching her new skills.

I'm just going to have to adjust it to using the computer too...as much as I disagree with it....

In infants DS2 did some maths on the computers but also did maths outside with big blocks, and number mats, and inside in a more traditional way.
In juniors he does some on Ipads but mostly it is more sitting down and learning from the white board.

computers are a useful learning tool but it is utterly wrong if they are the only way that maths is being taught. Perhaps this teacher doesn't like maths and can't be arsed teaching it in a more varied and creative way. Computer skills are vital to learn, but a computer can not teach your child.
There should be a lot more learning through practical investigation with hands on maths equipment (shapes, blocks etc) at that age. And proper class teaching done by an actual teacher. And group work, and maths games.
This is absolutely not the norm and if this happens for all maths lessons I think it is appalling teaching and should be looked into. Not least because it is boring and repetitive and will put the kids off maths for life.

Elesbells, websites like Cbeebies have sound to tell the children about the activities, however, in my experience at that age (say 3-5), they still need a parent to get them on the site, or help with some bits of it. But there are lots of drawing/painting applications that don't require reading skills.

But, I think it's horrid for your daughter to feel rubbish at maths aged 5, so I think going in to talk to the teacher (with an open mind, they may well use multiple methods of teaching number) is a good way forward.

They are totally wrong IMO. If they want to do maths with computers some of the time, that is okay, but children learn maths best with physical representations of the 'units' they are talking about. Children with poorer maths skills than yours will struggle horrendously.

Also, as another geek I think it's a very wrong headed way to make the most out of computers/build the skills required for the next generation of programmers. How to use a mouse/using programmes is really a tiny part of what computers are all about and while those sorts of things are what they should be learning at this age, I get fed up at how little curriculums progress from that point even at secondary school when children could be doing so much more.

I work in early years (ages 2-4) and have just been writing up my Adult Led Opportunity in IT for the 'Knowledge and Understanding of the World' section of the curriculum, developing mouse and keyboard skills are part of the basics even at this age. I don't know if it is right or not but it is (at least for now) part of the EYFS.

elesbells, there are lots of online games for them to play where they don't need to be able to read properly. Have a look at the cbeebies site on bbc.

I agree that ALL maths lessons on a computer is ridiculous. Could it be the teacher isn't very good at explaining maths and is avoiding traditional lessons?

I agree that computers are important and think children ahould start using them early on.. However I don't think OP is being unreasonable at all. Children should also be taught these skills without technology otherwise they will not be able to cope when they don't have access to technology. Plenty of my colleagues can't.

I truly believe varity is the key to a rounded learning experience. I am also very against young children being told they can't do something. It crushes their spirit and actively discourages them from trying.

Year 4 in our school (age 8-9) have just got a netbook each to take home.

My DDs are in Y2&3 and they do work on the computer, but Maths in particular is pen and paper work from the word go. They play maths games on the interactive whiteboard too though!

Glad you're seeing the head OP, it seems a little too IT orientated to me.

elesbells the computer doesn't have to be bad. It's when they use it to the detriment of anything else that it is wrong. DS1s reading has been improved by his interest in computers. He was a reluctant reader of books, preferred me to do the stories but was happy to read things on the computer.

thanks for the link :)
I will show her it when she gets home..it will help her with learning to use the mouse...I know a lot of her tears yesterday were due to frustration that she couldn't work it..

I will update later on what the head says...and I will go in with an open mind.

I hope too that the teacher was wrong (or just explained it to me wrong) because I will not be happy if that's the only way she is being taught..

thank you for all the replies...much appreciated

Maybe I'm just an old crankypants but I just don't get it. I'm with Squeaky, I'd rather they learn the traditional way first and then use computers for applying the knowledge in a fun way.

I never even touched a computer until I was, gosh, 12 or something? I had no problem picking it up right away, I've been very tech literate my whole life. I hate this idea that you have teach computers to kids when they're so young.

How can they say kids shouldn't watch TV for hours then plonk them in front of computers for all their school lessons? I know it's not quite the same but still, all that screen time instead of interacting with the real world. [awareness of irony emoticon]

No way do all schools teach Maths exclusively on the computer, and in fact this is not a good way of teaching. Part of teaching is to get the kids to work as a group, to share ideas and teach each other.
My kids schools do use computers and from a young age. However they also use a lot of pen and paper maths, and actually do far more mental Maths than I ever did.

For those of you interested in getting better computer skills in schools there is an epetition.

aldi I totally agree with you.

Computers should definately only be a part of the process.

Surely Pen and Paper is the way to start?? Point and click is all very well, but teachers need to implement more than one avenue of learning!

(may I just point out that I know exactly what I want to say, it's just not coming out right. Init)

YANBU. There's no need to use a computer all the time, or at all! A wide range of other interesting resources could be used.

What I am more shocked at is that a 5 year old is being told by a teacher who should know better-- be encouraging them at that age that she "can't do" something. Especially something like Maths.

How to give a child a complex and to give up on the subject totally

That's even before you get on to the appropriateness of just using one medium to teach such an important subject.

Totally agree with prettybird. That's what shocked me most. Those sort of terms being used by her teacher are more likely to set up a complex about maths rather than encourage your child. Besides, her ability in maths obviously isn't the real question here.

Really can't believe that ALL maths is done on computer, so somewhere the message has gone awry...but maybe she was just trying to show you that her mouse skills really are considered to be a basic element of her work within school (ie. she'll be doing this a lot).

I don't think you should worry about her using the computer (your assumption about her needing to read first is a bit out of date - sorry!). Nobody is suggesting she should be glued to the screen and keyboard 24/7...but you'll be amazed at how quickly she will intuitively take to this technology given half the chance and this will then give her the confidence to show what she knows in her maths. If you want a comparison, see how easily your child uses a remote control for the tv and compare that with how long it takes her grandparents to do it. Can she load a dvd and get the right channel on? Computers ARE normal, everyday technology now. You don't need to stop doing all the other wonderful things like sharing stories, playing 'real' games etc.. that you did with your older children, but you will be holding her back if you try to protect her from exploring the computer at all costs.

Other posters have suggested some great sites to try out. Have fun with her.

Meanwhile, hope your meeting with school does go well. They should be explaining to you (and preferably all the parents) how they go about teaching maths. Are they planning any workshops for parents? Have they given any suggestions about how you can help? Also ask them what strategies they have in mind for convincing your child she's not unable to do maths...how can she show them in different ways that she is grasping the concepts?

Your Parent Council (if you're in Scotland) or PTA/Governors should be able to give you further support if you are still unhappy with the school's response.

Agree with Lalalalala that school software is usually weird and becomes out-of-date very quickly. In fact let's lump the hardware in with that too - technology moves so fast that only a school with a mahoosive budget could keep on buying the latest stuff.

Ds and dd tell me that ICT lessons are a complete waste of time except for perhaps those children who have no access at all to a home computer/laptop. The thing is that the only children that applies to are members of the Plymouth Brethren and then they sit out of ICT lessons on religious grounds.

Sorry thread hijack. Why do Brethren sit out of ICT lessons? Please forgive my ignorance. Is it similar to the Amish view on technology?

Many Brethren I know do not have a TV because they think much of the content is worldly and immoral. I imagine they might avoid computers/internet for the same reason - keeping themselves apart so they are less tainted by the worldliness and sinfulness of these media.

They would also avoid popular fiction, popular music, cinema etc.

Sorry - continuing thread hijack... a teacher told me that she was a bit at this insistence on avoiding computers when they turn up in Range Rovers instead of horse and carts. The children were in the end permitted to participate in lessons so long as the content was strictly fact based - eg geography. In fact most of them have now gone off to their own school now - don't know if it's computer free!

OP, I do agree with you that this isn't the only way maths should be taught and I said so upstream but you do seem to be a little that computers should be used at all at such a young age, and I actually don't agree with that. I think you need to be asking the HT more about how they teach and percentage of time spent on computers. They really can help some children learn, and DCs don't need to be able to read to use the games etc.

Have a look at this school's website for resources DS school uses all the time
www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/teacher/