Is it unreasonable to ask a 4 year old to do these things?

[SenoritaViva]

DD is PFB so I've the time to assist her more than if I was running around after 3 children. Trying to 'train' her to be more independent before the next arrives at the end of the year. So would you expect a 4 year old to do these things?

1. Get dressed by themselves (with support where needed...the odd tug etc.) : I put her uniform out and ready for her the night before
2. Wipe their own bum (think I'm a control freak and like her bum to be properly wiped...her arms are just so short she can't actually really reach)
3. Make her own bed
4. How much tidying of their room/toys do you expect and how much intervention from you
5. Wash face/brush teeth
6. How much does your DC choose their own clothes on non school days (aaah, such a control freak on this. Don't want to relinquish but I do give her a choice. Is that OK?!)

If any of these are 'no, not yet' when do you think they are ready? Also, have I missed anything (chores etc.) that she could be helping with? I want to spend more quality time with her and not helicopter parent (DD is actually quite independent and not clingy I just think the two of us have got quite used to do lots of the mundane together).

MsScarlet - please can we have your DD to stay?!

PS on the clothes choosing front DD loathes clothes generally and would wear her PE kit every day if given the chance. If I thought she was going to wear quirky cool things I'd let her go for it but somehow she always chooses the hideous hand me downs. She refuses to wear particularly girly clothes and I respect that but try to steer her towards something reasonable (and clean!)

All in all though I think I need to 'up' my game in expectations!

In terms of the new baby, it may not be the same for you but I found my first child who was 2 when my next one was born still took up more time than the baby. Baby would feed and then sleep. When she was awake she was stimulated and amused by the shenanigans of the first child. If you have a collicky one or a non-sleeper it might be hard but you might find you can just carry on as usual and its sort of easier the next time round (until they are both running in opposite directions in the car park etc )

DS1 was 4.3 when DS2 was born and he started school a couple of weeks later. We'd been trying to get him ready for school in terms of dressing etc for a while, and that made it much easier with the new baby. I sometimes got him to bring his clothes into the lounge to get dressed in the morning, so I could help and chivvy him while I fed DS2. Bottom wiping he did by himself, but often not very well - I remember his arms being too short as well. Tidying he would do, but I would probably need to be in the room for it to happen.

Beds and clothes choices - life is too short. If you don't want her to pick hideous things, don't put them in her room ;) DS would still prefer to go naked - but while he wasn't very good at bottom wiping, I did insist on pants.

DS is 3 and he does:

1. yes
2. yes
3. no
4. a little bit although is idea of tidying is somewhat different to mine, but at least he tries
5. I let him have a go first but then I give his teeth another brush, but again he gets practice as he has first go
6. yes

1. Yes - but she sometimes refuses to
2. Yes
3. not a chance - but not too fussed [slob]
4. I expect her to complete specific tasks (pick up books, put animals back in basket, etc) but not generically to "tidy" (much)
5. Yes
6. Completely on her own - although I occasionally reject / amend her choices.

dd1 is 4.6

she gets dressed herself, but needs nagging to do so promptly on school days
bottom hygiene is fine - she has been drilled to keep wiping 'til the paper's clean. although it seems like she uses about 1/2 a loo roll per poo.

I haven't asked her to make her own bed - but I might now

she has to tidy her own stuff away, and i nag prompt her a couple of times a day if there's loads out. we did try waiting until the end of the day, but then there was too much to do, and she got overwhelmed and shouty

She washes her face, but I do her teeth. My dentist said I should be finishing them off for her at the very least.

She chooses her own clothes, but I make sure they're appropriate for the weather.

DD is 4.9 and in reception. I'd love to choose her clothes but realised that's my pride talking - if it doesn't match, it makes me look bad so I have stopped. I supervise toothbrushing, she washes herself, is completely independent with the toilet (they have to be for school, and humans are designed to be able to reach - if she can't now, I would be worried there was something physically not right, will she ever be able to?)
She sets the table, and clears her own things up in her room and elsewhere in the house, and she waters the garden. She will often help with washing, etc.

As a fellow control freak I think the trick is to lower your expectations!
Of course when I say tidy up I mean all the right toys in the right boxes in the right order my kids believe in the theory "if you cant see it then its tidied away". So I let them do it and then once a week when they are out I blitz it back to my control freak standard!

But IMO having a new baby will help you lower your expectation and pretty much trample on the last of those control freak tendancies!

I also agree that DS's are easier to let dress themselves - how wrong can you go with jeans and t-shirts. I did have to bite my tongue when DD (aged almost 3) appeared in bright pink leggings, a beach dress that goes over the knees and is covered in pictures of fishes and a pair of her brothers old trainers. Luckily she has lovely teachers and only a few mothers at pre-school gasped in horror

DS2 is coming up 5, he gets himself dressed, including buttons and shoes (velcro ones), picks his own clothes at weekends, makes his bed every morning (not perfectly, but well enough), helps change the sheets on his bed everyweek, lays the table (takes it in turns with DS1), clears his plate to the kitchen, puts toys away when he's finished. All this is what I expect him to do. He also sometimes helps dust, hoover, 'wash' up (has to be redone). He will actually help with every household task, if I let him :)