To wonder if I should have said/done something in response to this punishment comment

[givemushypeasachance]

I was on a training day at work and there were a few of us from different teams, mostly who I didn't know personally. A discussion arose about "the funny things children do" and someone talked about their toddler picking up swear words from hearing a parent swearing in the car. Someone else then said that when their DD (now 4yo) had sworn at an unspecified time in the past, she had washed her mouth out with soap - she was specific and said "I actually put soap in her mouth" so it wasn't just a turn of phrase.

I really didn't know what to say - I only met this person today, she's mid-thirties, seems nice, she works in the building but I've never even spoken to her before. I don't have kids myself so I really don't like to go around offering "parenting advice", but a former role I had in this organisation involved some child safeguarding work - making referrals to children's services and so on if we became aware of the people we worked (professional carers) with were alleged to have smacked children or might have been neglecting them, and so on. I have personally known of several cases where colleagues made referrals about allegations that carers washed children's mouths out with detergent - it would really be considered very, very poor behaviour management bordering on abuse, and something we were obliged to make a referral about. Mostly it seems to be done by people who just have a very 50's attitude to punishments and don't realise that sort of thing isn't acceptable anymore, who were doing it in a "loving parent making the punishment fit the perceived crime" kind of way rather than being deliberately sadistic, but it is a really horrible physical punishment to inflict on a small child and I wish more people thought it through before doing it.

I wouldn't think that a one-off mention of this sort of thing in the context of a parent and not a professional carer should have me running to phone social services, but I'm feeling a bit awkward about not having said something to the woman after the training session. Was I right to keep quiet or should I try to arrange to bump into her and quietly mention that she might want to read up on what sort of punishments are significantly less socially acceptable these days?

When a woman I used to know told me that she washed her grand-daughters mouth out with soap after she swore (aged about 5 or 6 I guess) I thought she was joking. I honestly thought it was just a saying, I never realized that people actually did it. I was horrified & would be very very angry if my mum or in-laws did that to either of my kids. Unfortunatlely I was in shock & never said anything to her about it. However apart from that one ithat one incident shewas the most wonderful grandmother you could wish for & her grandkids adored her.

It's awful! If she had done it to an adult, pinned them down and forced them - against their will - to swallow soap, then she would have probably been arrested for assault. Why should it be in any way acceptable just because she did it to a child? Yes, previous generations probably did the same but they also weaned at 8 weeks, fried everything in lard, used lead paint, and didn't wear seatbelts in cars - times change and harmful practices fall by the wayside as we get to know better. I mistakenly said fuck in front of DS (2) yesterday and he merrily chanted it over and over for a few minutes while DH and I completely blanked him and ignored it, as soon as he realised he was getting no reaction he stopped. I wouldn't even contemplate for one second putting soap in his mouth, he'd be terrified.

If it's bothering you and you're worried about it then say something, you don't even need to say it directly, see your manager and ask to remain anonymous - if there were other people there then she's not going to realise it was you.

OK Rizzo, I know what you're saying. What can the OP do at this point though? She isn't worriend about losing friends, but realistically, what outcome could be achieved at this point?

I also know I've told her in no uncertain terms that she shouldn't do it and that social services have so far done nothing about it. Where in my post did i say i hadn't done anything about it?

The last line of my post was about the OP knowing what to do about her situation.

Sorry Sneaky, think I've led you to cross purposes there.

When I mentioned losing friends I was talking about the other poster who knows her friend shoves pepper in her children's mouths not saying anything.
That really upset me. When I was a child and stuff wasn't right at home, I so wanted family friends to notice and say something, but no one wants to rock the boat.

Missed your last post freddy05. You're doing a bit of drip feeding there. You said you've told her it's not right and that's all you said.

Now you're saying SS are doing nothing about it. When were they told and by whom?

Sneakybeak - just my two cents on what could realistically be achieved - I don't think that agencies should swoop down on this woman or anything like that unless it came out that she forced her DD to drink half a bottle of fairy liquid and she was ill as a result, but I think it would be good if someone could talk to her about whey she felt it was an appropriate thing to do and see if she comes around to the idea that it was not good and she hopefully resolves to make sure not to do it again (and to maybe help spread the word that soap in a child's mouth = not advisible).

CBear6 - I completely agree with your approach to a young child swearing. Fine a 13yo repeatedly saying fuck and cunt in front of a visiting vicar and your aged parents would need to be addressed differently, but a toddler is just experimenting with new words. Swearing doesn't actually kill fairies or cause physical damage to anyone or anything, it can safely be ignored.

Rizzo - that's very different though isn't it? (genuine question) Surely repeated witnessed events have much more reason to be acted on than a 2nd hand conversation?

People seeing, and knowing what is going on day in, day out (Victoria Climbié/Baby P) is different - their appearance/non-attendance at appointments/school/community events should have alerted neighbours/friends. A one off chat just isn't ever going to be enough to have any kind of weight.

I dunno OP - I'm not complacent about this kind of thing, I'm really not.

My DD went through a phase of biting. Everyone told me to bite her back (I didn't). I called the HV for advice in distress (I have a history of PND), and lo and behold.... deep breath... 4 days later I had a message on my answerphone asking what I wanted. I didn't bother calling back.

The services to advice people on behaviour modification just don't exist in the UK.

My step mother put peri peri sauce in my sisters mouth for swearingn once. It didn't cause trauma to my sister (not as far as I can tell), but it surely doesn't fit in with my standards of good care and upbringing. It's a terrible bad wxample of how to behave as you are teaching your child to be agressive and forceful when wanting to prove a point or teach something. But my sister was not an abused child neither was I. I call it ignorance more then I would call it abuse. But I would say something if more remarks of the same sort were made by this lady in future.

I hate the "bite back, smack back, pinch back" remarks. My job, befire any other is to give a good example of manners and acceptable behaviour, not to show retaliation and agressive behaviour.

Yes Sneaky, that's exactly what I'm saying!

To re-iterate, I was saying to Freddy05 that the OP has heard something which may be true or not, or exaggerated (i.e. hard to act on) but that she (freddy05) knew something to be true about her friends kids and should have done something about it long ago.

I was when my neighbor told me (recently) that to stop her (then) 2 yr old from biting, she put hot peppers in his mouth!

I didn't say anything, but I guess I must have looked surprised?