AIBU to think this mother shouldn't have being given back her baby.

[M0naLisa]

[[http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/10/04/mum-ditched-baby-daughter-in-unlocked-house-to-go-on-four-hour-bender-115875-23464987/ Here...]

Sorry i know its The Mirror but at least its not the DM.

AIBU to think an eight-week suspended sentence, a ­supervision order and was told to pay £85 costs after admitting neglect is just not bloody enough. :(

I dont think she should have got her baby back.

Not everybody deserves a second chance!

And meanwhile, it is getting harder and harder and harder to adopt....

i'll finish your sentence for you quint

..a rational viewpoint on other people's lives and/or experiences whilst you take a tabloid newstory as the ultimate truth.

If you are referring to me altinkum, I don't think my response to this story is hysteria. If it is, I think people should be more hysterical. I don't know what caused the mother to do what she did, none of us here do. If she has mental health issues and they are now being addressed, that is great and of course will be good for the child. Seeing as this happened in July though, I find it hard to believe that the underlying reasons have been adequately treated/dealt with in such a short space of time. We all know how slow the system drags on. And if she had no mental health issues but thought this was acceptable? Maybe you are right, maybe two years suspended is enough to change her whole parenting ethos. I don't believe it is though.

This mother may just be a dreadful mother. But there could have been reasons that have now been resolved.

For example, she may have bipolar, have been in a manic episode and left her baby. She could now be taking medication and has agreed to regular monitoring of her condition. In fact people who resist medication can have an order attached where they have to take their daily medicine in front of a nurse.

Bipolar is actually a relatively easy mental health problem to sort and be stable - with the help of medication. If her bipolar was stable then there may be no risk of the baby being left alone again.

We don't know the situation, but what the mother did - go and pick up some blokes, send then back to her unlocked apaertment with her baby - does sound as if it could be bipolar.

If they will be safe with their parents. How many times has she left the child before? How would anyone know to trust her, when she can't tell 15 minutes from four hours?

Exactly. These are all questions we don't have the answer to. It's possible the the SWs have made a mistake. But it's likely that they haven't. But neither you or I know, because we know nothing about the work that has been done with this woman since the incident, or her personal circumstances. As I suggested before - if she was unmedicated and in a manic episode this could have easily occured. A contrite mother who complies with medication and psych appointments over a sustained period of time is no longer a risk to the child. We have no idea.

Quint - it's not about the mother it's about the child. The child deserves a chance to be parented safely by her mother. So if that's a possibility, and we don't know that it is not then that's what should happen.

Yes, I reckon it IS possible to one moment think it perfectly reasonable to leave your child and go out on a bender, and then suddenly think, "hey, that was really bad parenting, I must strive to consider my child in future".

Unlike my former neighbour who did this twice a week, leaving all three of her children at home alone, over the 10 year period we were neighbours. But it did improve, she progressed to take her 12 year old daughter with her to the pub, and left only the youngest son home alone.

Until one day he locked her out and refused to let her in, and she screamed down the neighbourhood at 4 am. And the then 10 year old piped his head out of the first floor bedroom windon and shouted "If you are out, you are out mum, and I fucking hate you".

That is possibly the other real life option. It is easier, and cheaper to let a child go back to a negligent parent saying "the child needs a chance to be parented by his/her mum" in her home.

Social conscience?

With the greatest of respect, I don't think you really understand anything about child protection procedures, social services departments or court proceedings, do you?

She admitted willful neglect rather than say 'extenuating circumstances' or pleading not guilty due to mental health problems. It says she admits she was stupid, it doesn't say anywhere she had health problems, which it usually does when that's the case.

I'm as happy to form a rational viewpoint on a story from the Telegraph, Times or Daily Mail, without knowing if it's the unvarnished truth in any of them. I am commenting on the facts that were presented,, not the ones that maybe could exist.

With the utmost respect, is that a prerequisite to have an opinion?

I don't think it will be as simple as her being handed back her child and being sent on her merry way. It's a terrible thing for a young mother to do and she deserves to be punished, but I think that the most important thing is that she has learned something from what's happened, is being given help if she needs it and is being taught how to be a responsible parent.
The authorities must think that she has improved her attitude and behaviour to the point where she can be responsible for the child again.
I would say that a child going into care permanently is a last resort, and that if the childs mother changes her behaviour and proves herself to be a good mother then the child should be returned to that parent.

I think, in this sort of situation, it is a prerequisite to having a valid opinion. I read your post and think of so many things wrong with it (not only you, it's very prevalent) and wish you could get an insight into how things are done and how hard people work to protect children. Perhaps then you wouldn't suggest that social workers return vulnerable babies to dangerous homes just to save a few quid.

Hear, Hear Altinkum.

I cannot believe that anybody would think after one incident of this kind that a child chould be taken away from its parent and placed into care. Does anybody know of any children that have come through the care system unscathed. This very young mother may have needed help and she may have now received that help and a wake up call - everyone deserves a second chance. I am not sure what kind of mother I might have been at 18-19!

alt, of course your sister's story is not black and white, you have given us detail. I form an opinion based on the court reported facts of this story, and the court makes no mention of health issues, the child's father and does mention that willful neglect was admitted. Very different.

I have a stepson who has been subjected to years of abuse and neglect by his mother , sanctioned by a child protection agency that seem hellbent on keeping the kids with their mother. I see it from this side. His mother tried to kill them, they are still with her. I see it from this side. There are always two sides.

Eric, in those ten years, social services came by now and then, spoke to her, and left satisfied all was ok. Because she said so. When her boyfriend kicked her down the stairs and she had to go into hospital, the children were temporarily removed, and returned when she came back from hospital. When her boyfriend beat her senseless on my doorstep, similar happened. When two little children were hiding under my hedge at night hand in hand in their pjs, naked feet, around christmas time, as they were scared because mum and boyfriend had another drunken barmy, it was heartbreaking.

I think it is really sad when a child as young as 4 should know to get up in the night, find his way down stairs and let his drunk mother back in.

Aged 7, I saw the little boy laying curled up in pain sobbing his heart out on the deck outside their house, as mum was kicking him in the stomack.

But like ss always said. "She sounds reasonable enough when we speak to her".

if this was the case, and you witnessed all these seperate acts of cruelty going on Quint - what did you do about it?

you know, with your social conscience and all?

Was there any more I could other than calling to report things I witnessed, and be kind to the children?

Or did you expect me to go out at night to start mediate between two drunks?

I had already had abuse thrown at me, and already had the police out for myself as the mother assaulted me infront of my own 2 1/2 year old, while I was heavily pregnant. She and her boyfriend terrified me. He is one heck of a big man! I had to give evidence on one occasion.

But I am sure I could have done more. But I am not lacking in social conscience.

You're totally right altinkum, I won't change my mind on that, my head is set on the fact that there should be no second chances for such neglect. I think the potential risks are still there. I don't think they should take the child for ever and never revisit the case, but the neglect happened in July, barely three months have gone by and I can't accept that the causes could possibly be dealt with in such a space of time.

i'm glad you did quints but you've just proved there is always more than one way to look at a story, and a lot is in the way it's told.

your post of 13.23 gives the side of all the cruelty and injuries that happened in that household.

yet the one at 13.30 tells of the court appearances and help you tried to give.

i know nothing about you, yet judged you for not caring in 13.23 post, but felt for you in the 13.30 one.

Altinkum, I'm not the OP but I read the link she posted and then searched online for more info, as you do. The daily mail covered it. The court heard she left the child for four hours, three alone, one with some random men she sent back to the flat ahead of her return. It was they who called the police. She returned to find the police there..