Dogs to be seperated from my son as they have history of being volitile

[Flumaxed]

im really looking for help to deal with a situation i face with my MIL. She owns two dogs that are very volitile. One doesnt like being touched around the collar and his ears pulled and has been known to growl, bite and snap at his owner. The other dog wants to be top dog and has gone hammer and tong with the other dog over basically jealousy issues. MIL treats them like children, sits them on her knee and cant see how bad they are. I have made it clear from pregnancy how i feel about them and that they are a risk to my child. These have constantly been downplayed and ignored at times. So much so that myself and husband have stopped taking my son over there. this has caused massive problems in itself. However I decided that it had been long enough and thought maybe MIL had got the message re the dogs. So i allowed MIL to babysit my son at hers but she was told the dog gate had to be up. Myself and husband go to pick up my son and dogs are out and running around. When challenged she said a long the lines of "well they were ignoring esach other so i thought i'd let them out". I was so angry, but as usual she makes me feel like i cant even say anything even when its my son's safety! I was so upset i was physically shaking with anger but still we drove off. Meanwhile I have been thinking about this and feel i cannot trust her to do as i ask. and it worries me so much that my son will pull an ear and the next thing i know im getting a call i dont want to hear. My MIL has made a war out of this for the last 2 years. Its as if she cant put her ego away for the safety of her own grandchild.

How do I handle this, I desperately need some advice? Especially as its now causing massive problems in our marriage, Im so angry I could cut her right out but I dont want to do that as my son has a lovely relationship with her even if I dont! Help!

I didn't say that it was 'pack' as most would understand it. I have witnessed (and other long standing working dog trainers) what i described.

My dog is the gentlest, cutest dog in the world (pics of profile if you want confirmation :o). He loves visitors and being petted and attention. Little kiddies constantly want to touch him when we're out and about. He loves it. But on his home turf with small children he morphs into savage evil bastard dog. I wouldn't dream of allowing my dog in the same room. He's locked up the instant small visitors arrive. You are definately not being unreasonable.

I have seen a young terrier put with an experienced ratter and copy what the other dog is doing, without the input of the owner.

I watched a program on fox hounds, where the same thing more or less happened.

Classical conditioning works as a training formula, but it isn't the only reason for a dog to behave in a certain way.

You can't expect to control what happens in someone else's home.

What you can control is whether your child goes there or not.

Sorry Birdsgottafly, my mistake. I have re read and no you did not mention packs.

It was midlandsummer and another poster who mention packs. I picked your post out because of the 'a dog must know it's place' comment which smacked of pack theory twallop among the other comments.

I have seen what you describe happen, one dog learn from the other. Dogs copy behaviours naturally, but the leader/teacher relationship is not always fixed, as I understand it. Obviously a more experienced dog will lead a younger dog more often than not, but it's based on experience not power and control, which pack theory would have you believe. The older dog will not use force to coerce the younger dog.

As for dogs must know their place, yes, like children they must have boundaries in place and they are happier for knowing what is expected of them (just like children are), but allowing your dog to sit on lap will simply teach it that it is allowed to sit on your lap, not that it is higher in the 'pack' than you.

Keep her out of MIL's house unless you are there. Invitations to her to specify "without dogs" and mean it. Kick DH to get onside and stay onside. MIL may have to choose between seeing DGS as much as she might like and keeping dogs.

I have said it before and I will say it again: children, especially young children, are what matter. They are entitled to our love and our protection. Dogs are pets and by comparison don't matter.

I am a dog lover/owner, but I am a fairly recent dog convert and until about 6 years ago I was distrustful of all of them. Now, I think dogs are largely misunderstood. However, I am 100% behind you on this issue. Do not feel manipulated into taking any chances with your child. And I don't think you can trust your MIL to do as you ask when you are not there, if she cannot acknowledge there is a potential risk.

As with so many MIL problems, your DH needs to take the lead on this.

Yes, I agree. Don't let him make this your battle to fight alone.

If your MIL can't be trusted to keep the dogs away, then she shouldn't be allowed to babysit your child. It's really not worth the risk.

Have her over to your house (without the dogs!) to babysit.

morning, I feel I want to answer a few questions on here regarding my own dog. My dog is kept on the otherside of a 6ft wide child gate seprating my living room from open plan kitchen diner. We dont lock him away in a seprate room but as we all know dogs are unpredictable even if they are docile. So we regulary and supervised allow our 18 month son to head to the gate and pet our dog. Our dog can stay and have the attention which he does or he can leave when hes had enough which he does. We regulary interact the two under controled and monitored situations slowly teaching my son what is aceptable with the dog and teach him slowly what the things the dog does means. when he is old enough we will consider fully opening up the rooms but my son doesnt understand that pulling my hair is not acceptable let alone the dog. I hope we are doing this in the best sensible way.
In relation to the MIL babysitting over here and whether she does the same. She has been told but now I am beginning to think we might need to remind her our the rules with our own dog. I think she knows that she wouldnt and cant control our dog but seems to be niave that she can control two smaller dogs when they are not contained running around my son while she watches from aty least 2 metres away.
I really appreciate all the comments. I will keep you posted as to the result of the conversation with her on monday.

YANBU but it's easily solved imo. Your mil has shown that she's not willing to follow your instructions about the dogs so now she only sees them at your house or a neutral location. If she asks why tell her the truth - that she has refused to respect your wishes about the dogs and you don't trust her to keep them apart.

Never ever allow your MIL to babysit at hers, when the dogs are in the house. Have her round to yours.

Thanks, Flumaxed. I think you are right to ponder about your MiL being at your own home babysitting, and whether she will abide by your rules regarding your own dog. She needs to give you complete assurances.

TBH I wouldn't let someone who completely disregards my safety rules babysit full stop. It might be difficult if you have no other babysitting options but I wouldn't risk it. You can't trust her.

It sounds as if she can´t be trusted tbh.

Two lively dogs & a toddler is a lot for anyone to look after.

I have one very placid dog who I love to bits, but for the sake of a couple of hrs would put him in another room to make it easier for me & him!