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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask for advice from anyone who has rented out property

54 replies

headinclouds101 · 23/09/2011 17:20

Sorry to hijack AIBU - need to make a very quick decision and would welcome comments from anyone who has rented out property - or indeed the perspective of anyone themselves renting privately.
We have to rent out a house we have inherited but can't sell at present. Must decide quickly between tenants A - couple with a small baby - they are on low wages but can afford the rent while she is on mat pay. Concern is if 5 months down the line she gives up work (or indeed goes back to work but has childare costs ) he would not be able to afford on own.These people really need to find somewhere to live fairly soon.
Tenant B a 40ish single guy - steadyish though not especially well paid job. He is already in rented house that he does not have to leave in a hurry- but ours is much nearer his place of work. Slight concerns are that he has been in debt in the past - he was up front about this as it would probably come out in a credit check. Also pehaps unfairly , concerns about his lifestyle if he is single man.
I know that nobody can make the decion for us - but would greatly welcome any thoughts as OH and I have been going round in circles. We live too far away from the property to meet them - so no "gut" feelings. The agents favour the man as his situation is not as likely to change in six months as the couple - also he has an established history in private renting. However we don't want to be "pushed" by them.
In particular I would like to know if a joint tenancy of an unmarried couple is likely to cause any more problems than a single tenancy. The agency we were using indicated that it might - but were woolly about why.

OP posts:
featherbag · 23/09/2011 19:55

MoreBeta, I've been renting for 12 years, and have just taken on the tenancy of the property I'm in at the minute in July. Every property I've ever rented (bar one) was through an agency, and I have never heard of this 'standard practice' issuing of S21 notices. It would be a total deal-breaker for me, as of course I don't want to end the tenancy after 6 months, I want to extend it if the tenancy is satisfactory! Dictat, thankfully, your DH's argument bears no relation whatsoever to the law - if he does this, he is acting illegally, not to mention immorally and he is obviously one of 'those' landlords that give the rest a bad name.

glasscompletelybroken · 23/09/2011 19:56

Tricky one - I have previous bad experience of single guys. Don't shoot me down, that's just the way it is! Housing benefit is fine but keep an eye on it going in because they won't bother to let you know if they stop paying it. Also it's paid in arrears which kind of makes your deposit worth less if they do stop paying it as the tenants have already effectively had a free month by the time you realise.

cantspel · 23/09/2011 19:59

The problem with housing benefit is if you do end up having it paid direct and they then find it has been claimed incorrectly/fraud ect then they will recover the money from you and not the tenant.

Dictat · 23/09/2011 20:05

Featherbag - I accept he would be acting illegally if this eventuality occurred. However, I totally disagree that it would be immorally. The person failing to pay the rent would be the immoral one, in my opinion - Please don't forget that my DH and myself, as private individuals, are not a charity.

CocktailQueen · 23/09/2011 20:14

Hmm, see references definitely.

We did this - rented out my London flat when dh and I moved out of London. Ferking nightmare - bastard tenant defaulted and fucked off leaving my nice flat a shit hole. She can't have cleaned EVER. :( And she had a dd. It was horrible.

She'd put her dad up as her guarantor and he refused to pay up - she left and used her farging deposit as her last month's rent :( We didn't think it was worth claiming through SCS but we were sooo bitter. Bitch bitch bitch.

Fridge was knackered; there was a thick layer of dirt throughout the kitchen; bathroom was mouldly and horrible; loo seat vanished; furniture trashed. Disaster. Put me off renting to the lower paid members of society tbh. (tho, as disclaimer, am sure that renting higher-value properties can be just as much a disaster).

Anyway, I'd go with tenant B. To be on the safe side.
hth!

troisgarcons · 23/09/2011 20:17

jumping thread

You can take out land lord insurance to cover missed payments. It works out at about 12% of your rental money BUT as it's a 'gizzit' property and you dont have a mortgage on it the 88% in your bank is a bonus!

INeedALieIn · 23/09/2011 20:19

I second cantspel.

Avoid DSS if you need payments to be regular, guaranteed and on time.

If benefit has been overpaid, the refund is automatically deducted from your landlord dss rent payment. In the past he council recalculated the benefit for tenants who had left 6 months earlier. They then deducted a £1000 over payment directly from my other dss rent payments. The tenants had long since left and this was out of my control. The landlord is an easier target than the tenant.

This has happened several times to me.

Also dss is in arrears, which, as previously stated, devalues your bond.

The landlord can issue an S21 more or less at any point once the contract begins but there is no real value in doing so until closer to the time you wish the tenant to leave as it is unsettling.

Due to the current economic climate we ask for Guarantors (must be home owner and in work) as a matter of course. Not always possible, but a useful fall back as we have found via the courts.

Your agent could easily reference 2x applicants. It costs very little (dispite the amount they charge). At the very least they could as both parties to complete the refernce info and provide the bank statements/passport docs. On looking at this information you can get a good idea of which is most likely to be the better tenant.

Sorry for the long post

sb6699 · 23/09/2011 21:24

MoreBeta - it is not "standard" practice. It is using a loophole so that you dont have to give your tenant appropriate notice if you change your mind about renewing (as my LL did when I told him that a rent increase of over £150 per month wasnt really on).

Thank you Lucy, will have a browse.

MoreBeta · 23/09/2011 21:36

sb6699 - if you want to stay in a rented house more than 6 months then do as I do. Sign a contract for a fixed term such as 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, etc. That way your LL cannot kick you out before the end of the fixed term.

If you only sign a 6 month contract you can hardly complain when your LL asks you to leave at the end of that contract if you dont want to renew at the new rental price they are asking. There is nothing unethical about asking you to leave at the end of the contract and giving you plenty of notice.

As a tenant, I agree that it would be nice to have the option to stay in a rented house without my LL being able to remove me until I wanted to leave but that is not the way the law works.

cheeseandmarmitesandwich · 23/09/2011 21:43

I would go for the couple. They are more likely to want to settle and will take care of the house. Presumably they have budgeted and know what they can afford if she gives up work?

We rented to a couple with a little girl then they split up and he left, leaving her with the rent to pay on her own (I know, bastard!) But she got housing benefit and the rent is still paid on time every month, she looks after the house and we don't have any complaints- in fact we have now got rid of the agency and she pays us direct!

cheeseandmarmitesandwich · 23/09/2011 21:43

I would go for the couple. They are more likely to want to settle and will take care of the house. Presumably they have budgeted and know what they can afford if she gives up work?

We rented to a couple with a little girl then they split up and he left, leaving her with the rent to pay on her own (I know, bastard!) But she got housing benefit and the rent is still paid on time every month, she looks after the house and we don't have any complaints- in fact we have now got rid of the agency and she pays us direct!

Indaba · 23/09/2011 21:49

you can get landlords insurance.....the insurance company reference to their standard and if tenant passes and you have any problems subsequently you are insured

we had a nightmare tenant and it takes ages to evict and is costly

FabbyChic · 23/09/2011 21:50

Ive rented from an agency for 4 years, before that private landlords, one who decided to sell after six months, one who did not tell their mortgage company they were sub-letting and he didn't pay his mortgage so bailiffs came to secure the property then one who got prengnant split from her bf and wanted her house back.

Im with an agent now and prefer it. You don't have to be two months in arrears to get the benefit paid to the Landlord, I was one month in arrears because they did not want the month in advance because I was HB to start with.

It works for them and me. Im now working though so have to make up that month! But they are really good agents.

sb6699 · 23/09/2011 22:28

MoreBeta - we have a fixed 12 month contract which he said he would be renewing. If he didnt want to renew he was supposed to let us know 2 months before the contract ended as agreed when we moved in.

He didnt mention the increase and the first we heard was when we got the letter stating thats what we would be paying or your out in 3 weeks.

If they were acting morally, I should have received that letter over a month ago to give us adequate time to find somewhere else.

I know how things work, I've been renting for years. Have never been given an S21 at the start of a contract and will never be so naive again.

sb6699 · 23/09/2011 22:30

Apologies headinclouds, will bow out now as dont want to dereail the thread.

Quattrocento · 23/09/2011 22:32

I've an investment property (an investment I sincerely regret but that's another story) and I'd go for the single bloke. Children cause wear and tear.

SoftKittyWarmKitty · 23/09/2011 23:57

I'd go for the couple. I rent privately and my LL has told me quite a few scare stories about single people who've rented his house before - including one woman who moved her BF in without him knowing, the BF turned out to be a drug dealer and she was a hooker!

I'm a single parent of a 5yo, I get some LHA (like housing benefit but for private tenants), I have no savings at all and I have a cat. According to some people on this thread, on paper I'd be the worst tenant risk ever. However, my LL has recently told me we're the best tenants he's ever had and he'd like it if we stay as long as possible. So my suggestion would be to go with your instinct.

INeedALieIn · 24/09/2011 07:49

Welcome to the world of renting. Neither tenant sounds ideal.

Housing benefit / LHA is to be avoided.

headinclouds101 · 24/09/2011 07:58

Thanks all - will think over what everyone has said. Will be out all day - will come back on thread evening

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 24/09/2011 08:03

InNeed why is it to be avoided? I was sick from a mental health issue for six years I worked for 13 years for the same employer before I became sick, and there was no other way to find a home if not for someone who would take HB. I had a months deposit and a month in advance, in fact when I first moved here I paid 2 months in advance because of the waiting time for the benefit to be sorted.

I have always paid in advance and am now catching up after coming off of main housing benefit.

My landlords like me as a tenant as I completely redecorate, lay new flooring and all at no cost to them. When I rent I make it my home.

INeedALieIn · 24/09/2011 08:15

Hi.
Many reasons. Many are completely out of the tenants control. Primarily the fact that payments are in arrears, not up front, 4 weekly, not monthly. When benefits are under investigation/ recalculated all payments stop instantly for several months until sorted, over payments are taken from the landlord in the first instance, the majority of Buy to let mortgages have a clause specifically preventing you from accepting benefit or student tenants.

When benefits move from say income to health related, all above board and understandable, the payment can stop for several months. This can happen many times until the red tape is sorted. No fault of the tenant, and no fault of the landlord however the landlord is left out of pocket for long periods.

As I said previously, take a home owning FT working guarantor.

As ever, there are many great housing benefit tenants, however, the main aim of the landlord is payment in full and on time. Unfortunately this can be otally out of their control.

susiedotcom · 24/09/2011 08:52

In my experience as a landlord, housing benefit was a nightmare. My tenants were a lovely family but their circumstances kept changing (babies, new jobs, etc) and every time their HB was reassessed and I would be without any rent (or means to pay my mortgage) for months at a time. I would many a time spend entire lunchtimes on the phone to the HB office.

Also, when I decided to sell, I gave my tenants 3 months notice and it still took me over a year to get them out through the courts. Because they were a "lovely family" I was prey to emotional blackmail. It cost me a blinking fortune, and because I ended up having to take them to court it led to bad feeling and them leaving my house a complete wreck.

A single bloke would have been much easier to detach myself emotionally from and I'd have had him out in 3 months. (But if you're using an agent, that's irrelevant I suppose.)

Lucyinthepie · 24/09/2011 10:04

You can't really generalise about types of tenants. With 4 properties between myself and DP, my best ever tenant is a single man, and his best ever tenants have been a family with two children and also an old lady. MY worst ever nightmare tenant was a single woman on HB that I was persuaded to take on by the letting agent. She screwed the system I'm going to describe below to the max, and by the time she dumped her keys on the letting agent's desk (no doubt moving on to her next LL victim) the flat was trashed and I ended up nearly £3k out of pocket.

Re Housing Benefit. As I said before, if there are special circumstances, for example a history of mental illness, it might be possible for landlord and tenant to ask for it to be paid direct from day 1. However, normally, even if the tenant requests that, most local authorities won't do this.
So here we have a opportunity for the dishonest. Knowing that the landlord can't force the re-routing of the HB until they are 8 weeks in arrears they just pocket that money. Then the landlord can start to get paid direct, but is already dealing with a significant loss of income. They may have a deposit, but often with HB tenants and in areas where it's more difficult to rent property, they may have been persuaded to take a smaller deposit or none at all. Then the tenants move on at the end of the 6 month AST, and repeat the process to pay for their next holiday.
In worst case scenario, the property has also been left in a mess and needing money spent to let it out again. The landlord is on a hiding to nothing because there is no point in pursuing people on benefits for what can be £1,000's owed.

At least if tenants are in employment it might be worth going after them for what they owe. Bearing in mind of course that if they are bad tenants it will be standard practise for them to default on their last month's rent, therefore negating the benefit of taking a deposit. Oh, and of course they might start off employed, then become unemployed and apply for HB, in which case landlord whistle for a month or two and dig into your savings while you wait for HB to be paid...
If this sounds extreme I don't care. A friend of mine who had just two lovely BTL flats went bankrupt, after a string of bad tenants. All came with great references. She was a great landlord who looked after the properties well and this experience destroyed her.
Whatever you do op, take out landlords insurance, and check to make sure that it will cover if you end up with HB tenants. Mine doesn't and I'm looking into that now.
Again I recommend the landlord's forum that I linked to earlier. They tell it like it is, and give good advice. It's an interesting read for anyone by the way, even tenants. Not only does it give useful information for them, but it will also clearly show why some landlords are so wary about who they let into their properties.

Oh, a 6 month AST is often given initially and it gives landlord and tenant a chance to make sure they've made the right decision. The fact is, if you rent someone else owns the property you live in. That has some advantages and some disadvantages. One of the disadvantages is that if they want or need to sell, or want you to move out, it's their property.

INeedALieIn · 24/09/2011 12:11

Unfortunately, Lucyinthepie highlights the reality for most landlords when dealing with housing benefit.

RLA website is also another great website. You will receive great advice on their forum from landlords and property professionals.

One more word of caution. An Agent is just an intermediary who may (and unfortunately in some cases may not) be better informed and able to deal with issues than yourself.

Ultimately, the property is yours, if you chose to have no involvement and leave all to the agent you are accepting their standards (of cleanliness, tenants...etc). Agents have been known to not carry out inspections, not bother referencing (whilst still charging for it) and some have no real experience of obtaining possession of a property and arrears payments and they have also been known to go bankrupt owing landlords thousands.

holidaysoon · 24/09/2011 12:35

Hb is usually paud to the tenant though isn't it fabby

dictat your dh is neither legally or morally right
laws concerning rental property in the UK are very much in favour of the landlord

headin clouds drop the price to meet the market and sell would be my advice

however if you want to rent it why do you think the couple will suddenly be on HB?

agency wouldn't chase any arrears would they?

if it was up to me I'd choose the couple

one of the worst flatmates I ever had was a police officer she kept my deposit too!