to think that there is no excuse for general ignorance.

[AKMD]

I think we're very lucky to live in a country (if you're in the UK) where it's a legal requirement to be in full-time education until you're 16, where FE is free and you don't have to pay for HE until you have a decent job. Unless someone has SN or another very compelling reason why the education system didn't work for them, I don't see any good reason why people leave school with crap GCSE results and without basic skills in literacy, numeracy and some sort of idea of how the world works. It disgusts me when adults make a show of their ignorance and when bright children are socially excluded, teased or made to feel embarrassed simply for being clever. AIBU to judge wilful ignorance quite harshly?

OP, I do agree that some people seem seem to have no interest in informing themselves or widening their own horizons and see people that do as strange or threatening. It is the same with the 'Oh, I'm useless at maths' brigade who seem to think that being useless at maths is a good thing.

However, to me the state education system in this country is nothing to do with teaching a love of learning and widening horizons and all about making children fit into convenient holes and teaching them to do what The Man says.

agree with OP

you have a world of knowledge literally at your fingertips and you still get numpties saying how long do i bake a potato for, who is Gordon Brown, what does concur mean

look it up you lazy git! you have more chance of retaining the info then. but i guess if it doesnt involve x factor or big brother, its not worthy

Real convo this week in college library during induction

girl A: ooh i aint been in a library since i woz 5!
girl B: i aint never been in a library

I rest my case.

I left school with rubbish GCSE results, for a lot of different reasons I didnt go to school a lot of the time due to problems in my personal life at that time.

I left school and worked in a pub for 4 years and then did my AAT and CEMA whist working a decent wage working in finance.

I think there are a lot of reasons why kids dont do well in school and judging people purely based on their GCSE results or how well they did in school is actually fair ignorant too.

It is the same with the 'Oh, I'm useless at maths' brigade who seem to think that being useless at maths is a good thing.

But it makes me feel better to pretend Im proud at being poo at maths rather then embarrassed I cant do something others find so easy.

Avalaff you are Likeley to be one of the people the OP is having a go at as you haven't used the correct punctuation through your post not that I give a shit.

They said: "I don't see any good reason why people leave school with crap GCSE results and without basic skills in literacy"

Not entirely sure why you are agreeing with them.

As for the "useless at maths" thing, who cares if someone is usless at maths. I am good at both English and Maths but totally totally crap at science, have no sense of direction and could write a huge list of things I am just not good at.

All people have strengths.

All people have weaknesses.

What's wrong with being honest about them?

''What's wrong with being honest about them?''

Nothing at all, but people deal with things in different ways.

Ha! Beat you to it trill

But some people are just fick, innit? Do you propose keeping them at school 'til they "get it"? Some people will never "get it", no matter their circumstances.

I don't care whether someone is good or bad at maths. What does bother me is the attitude that it is somehow good or cool to be crap at maths, which isn't exactly condusive to having an employable workforce that can compete against the likes of China where being good at stuff is actually celebrated.

Exactly Callisto.

Im just saying some people might have that perceived attitude that bothers you for a reason.

I am angry that teh system allows children to fall through completely becuase of terrible aprents, health problemns, caring responsibilities, insecure housing....

I am not angry at the person who was failed though; as theya re children and a good aprt of the point of being labelled a child is that you cannot make adult decisions.

I don't know whether I think YABU or YANBU, a bit of both really. GCSEs are not the be all end all but wilful ignorance pisses me off too. And I don't mean people saying that they are crap at maths because they are at least acknowledging (I wasn't sure how to spell that, but I have looked it up in the OED) that the subject is relevant to their lives. To me, wilful ignorance is actively dismissing the relevance of basic knowledge such as literacy and numeracy.

Have to say the "bright children are socially excluded, teased or made to feel embarrassed simply for being" clever rings true. My DD and her friends were badly bullied (physically and mentally) at primary school for being the geeks and uncool - teachers seemed unable/unwilling to do anything about it so made my DD time at primary school quite miserable. So I wasn't too sympathetic when I saw the ringleader bully crying on 11+ results days (I know that sounds awful but they put our DC through hell). At least DD and friends are all at grammar school now so should excape the bullying for being bright (although there will of course be other issues).

This said I agree that there are lots of circumstances that affect education but the boasting about lack of education or intelligence is something I find very odd.

Also exactly SMA. The blame for children failing is always laid at the door of the school and the schools are the ones dragged over the coals for it, but most schools (can only speak for primary) are very committed, hard working and put endless strategies in place to support children who are at risk of falling through the net.

Unfortunately, when the parents aren't on board (for whatever reason); the children can't attend school/do homework because they are caring for an ill parents; miss school due to their own illnesses; are at risk of homelessness there is only so much the schools can do.

I didn't take the OP to mean that GCSEs were the holy grail of education. There is no excuse for children leaving primary school without basic numeracy and literacy skills (SN aside) unless they have missed a lot of school. It's what school is!

But yes, agree, the children themselves shouldn't be labeled.

I love learning, I like finding things out and generally the world, and all it's intricacies, fascinates and interests me. I do, however, understand not everyone is like that. Yeah, being dim probably isn't something to be proud of but it's no skin off my nose. I also understand that not everyone finds things like maths and English easy, and I'd never judge someone for it. My DH struggles with his spelling etc quite a bit. I understand the bit about clever children being bullied though because I was bullied at Primary school for being a "boff". When I got into Girl's Grammar all the boys called me a lesbian (aaah 11 year old logic) to which I responded "Well I'll probably go out with more girls than you ever will (my young self was rather proud of that one).

Talking about basic numeracy and literacy, I'd be more inclined to look at a failure of the education system if children are leaving without that.

YABU to assume that not having good school exam results automatically means that the person is ignorant. I know intellegent people who didn't get good results for various reasons.

I do agree, however there seems to be culture of being proud of ignorance and of making a fool of those who strive to learn which is wrong.

I don't see any good reason why people leave school with crap GCSE results and without basic skills in literacy, numeracy .

Would a good reason be that a child is from a family with multiple and complex issues, a child is from a disadvantaged area and their school is not a popular choice with parents like you? For example.