To think that mixed class marriages are more complicated than if you have similar backgrounds?

[Argos]

DH's family read the Sun, support EDL, spend all their money in the pub (getting paralytic every weekend even now), never eat any fruit or veg, watch their 50 inch TV constanly and don't own any books. They shout and swear at each other and use really horrible language. His mum fed him coke in his bottle and used to let him stay at home rather than go to school whenever he wanted.

DH is not like this, he got a degree, is a bit of a foodie and reads books.

I was brought up by Guardian reading lefties who did their best to give me all the educational opportunities they could & didn't let us eat sweets or drink coke. We never swore at each other or used racially abusive language.

Scratch the surface and our fundamental views on a lot of things relate back to our childhood

DH and I are very similar people personality wise but with completely different upbringings. I didn't think this would be an issue but there are lots of things which are complicating things and I wonder if IBU to think this is to do with class?

yy not money-related

I have also noticed that it is quite rare in this country for classes to mix, I get on really well with DH's familyand he gets on really well with mine but our marriage has really highlighted the huge differences in our society for both of us.

I like the way it has been described as a cultural difference rather than a class difference, I was looking for a better way to explain as I realise mentioning class in teh context I did can put peoples backs up.

"- unless you believe in total social immobility. "

I do.
Don't want any of the wretched proles getting idea above their stations.

Argos Exactly - it's about culture. Class is misleading, as it implies a hierarchy of money and/or power that in reality is far from cut and dried. In cultural terms, my family is 'middle-class' and DP's is 'working-class'; but in money terms, they're about the same. In terms of values, I don't think it's meaningful to say one set is better than the other, though they're certainly different and that can lead to misunderstandings sometimes.

My parents both came from working class backgrounds and became middle class, my dad's parents where similar to DH's but my mum's where quite different, so yes I do believe in social mobility

I fond being in a partnership with someone of the opposite sex is the basis of the biggest differnces between us!

YABU - I find it strange that someone with your implied educational advantages is unable to discern between between class, values or culture. Perhaps your 'complications' are less to do with 'class' but more fundamental than that.

oldenglishspangles - Even with all my 'advantages' (state school & lots of extra curricular stuff) I actually left school at 15 with no qualifications. DH on the other hand won a scholarship to a private school and did extrememly well.

Slightly off thread but why do people quite happily reel off long lists of what makes someone middle class (thread earlier this week) but when anyone defines working class as anything other than hard working and living in a council house they get lots of 's and patrionising remarks?

FWIW I will say again I don't see all working class people the same as DH's parents. My mum's parents are working class and quite different to DH's parents.

Between cultures, there are little things that grate. My DH, who has left it all behind in terms of expectations, came from a very simple background north of the border.

I hate the way he says couch, dessert and serviette as I was always taught to avoid those words when i was growing up. He (understandably) thinks i am ridiculous but does let my vocab hold sway with regards to the children.

They never cause an argument, but now in the cold, unforgiving light of day the first flush of love has gone, it just causes annoyances.

I think it's because, even though it wasn't your intention to do so, you implied that working class = giving dc coke from bottles and having poor values, whereas middle class = museum trips and good values.

Although you didn't say it, there was perhaps an implication that being middle class makes a better parent, which doesn't recognise that good parenting has very little to do with money or class.

It's funny really, because a lot of people equally despise the middle class and believe they are pretentious social climbers, who are more judgemental than both the upper and working classes.

Class is a contentious thing to discuss in this country. I'm not sure it even matters though, as it seems the only real marker is skint or not skint!

Argos -to be fair what you have just posted is not what you put in your original post. Your original post was more stereotypical and extreme(only two camps) eg the sun (tabloid) v guardian (broadsheet) edl (far rightwing) versus left wing (anti racist) all neatly explained by class. It took me a while to complete my post (attempting to multitask) and in the mean time you have explained that 'values' was more fitting for what you were trying to articulate. I personally think the whole idea of class is out of date. I rarely see or hear it used unless it is to put down one side or the other.

Forgot to add 'values' are independent of money. If money and education = better 'values' there would be no corrupt, debauched politicians. For every crap parent with without money I could show you an equally crap one with lots of money.

Actually, yes I do think it makes a difference, though not in the Sun-reading-racits way that most people seem to have experienced. My ex-husband came from a much richer family than mine; we met at university and his dad was giving him about £5000 per term for living expenses (this was in the 90s) whereas I was living on a maximum grant plus loans and a bursary, being from a single-parent family and my mum only having some seasonal work plus income support at the time. When we moved in together after university, there were a few conflicts related to him having no idea how to live on a small budget, and being very picky about jobs he would apply for (he went into an agency that I knew had work as I was doing cleaning in a hospital through them at the time, and came away saying there was nothing!). We had a lot of arguments about him buying hobby related things which we couldn't afford. TBH though I'm not sure his way of finding jobs (being really picky) hasn't paid off as his is much better than mine. I wonder if this is part of how people from richer backgrounds manage to stay that way, just through feeling they are more valuable than other people to start with so they put themselves across as better and people believe that (I don't mean in an entitled way, he's a nice guy, just that maybe if I'd thought 'why should I do cleaning' then employers would have more respect for me, even though as someone from a poor background you get it drummed into you that you should take whatever job you're offered and be grateful). His family (well, his step-mum) were also very much into reminding me that he was 'better' e.g. by telling me that he was very bright and was going to be a huge success (he still isn't, actually, he just has a decent secure public sector job, which is better than I have but hardly worldshattering), even though we were both at Cambridge when we met so ffs I didn't need to be told and actually I was equally bright.

I also think posh people are very good at pretending to themselves that class differences don't exist... Thus no doubt someone will be along to tell me I am an evil scrounger or something soon.

Yes our parenst are pretty extreme examples, i realise not everyone is though, from whatever class/culture

It's starnge because DH views himself/us as working class even though he has a degree and went to private school whereas I view myself/us as middle class even though I have no qualifications

DontTell I have the same problem with lounge. I know it's ridiculous, but it still bugs me. I'm sure I'll get jumped on for admitting it, but what we should think isn't always what we do think. I guess that in a nutshell is why cultural differences within the UK are so sticky and intractable.

I think shared values are one of the biggest predictors of whether people will get on as friends or partners. While values are not the same as class, class can determine values to some extent, if that makes sense. People of similar backgrounds do tend to end up together, and this is probably why.

When I was at uni, I dated all sorts of boys from different cultures, nationalities and class (if you will) backgrounds. Eventually I ended up with my partner, a rugby-playing public schoolboy who works hard at a professional job. The only big difference in our backgrounds is that he was raised by very religious parents and I wasn't. However, he is an atheist, as am I.

I have friends from all walks of life (live in London, hard not to) and I have noticed that I have very different values to some of them and have had to 'agree to disagree' on certain topics - ie not discuss them unless I want an argument I have to say that I can't imagine trying to raise children with someone who I felt had a totally different outlook on life, because of religion or very strong political beliefs for example.

I certainly think my upbringing was better in some ways but in others DH's was better, his family are much warmer & laid back than mine

WibblyBibbly raises an interesting point, and I think it is one of the major reasons that class divides are perpetuated from generation to generation... being raised with different expectations.

Probably another thread though.

Cut them im half and take the best bits am I am sure you could get one brilliant set of parents Argos. I would often like to do that with mine.

'in' even!

Oh I think it is so much more than just class as others have said.

Dh and I were both brought up in what you would call middle-class families I guess.

But you couldn't get 2 more different families:

Church of England with all the pomp and ceremony vs evangelical christians very happy clappy
Tory voters vs labour
2 children with big age gap vs 4 children very close together
Order vs chaos
Rules and etiquette vs anything goes
Tidy vs messy
Quietly spoken vs loud and shouty
Old parents vs very young parents
Helpful and caring vs every man for himself
Well balanced vs screwed up
Happy marriage vs divorce

We are very different as a result. But yet have the same outlook on life and the smae values in many ways.

The issue i have with your OP is that you have placed the sweets in the first list. For many years i always bought the guardian WITH jellybeans, always.

Can you move the pub aswell? Please? I don't know maybe make a seperate list on a mid ground? After a busy morning in a museum it is nice to have a filling pub lunch.