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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is calling someone 'holy' a bit much?

44 replies

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 07:53

Went to a funeral of DH's relative. During her life she was quite often mean and cruel to certain members of the family. However in the funeral, the vicar, a personal friend through her church, got all emotional and said she was one of the few 'holy' people he had ever met.

I thought this was a bizarre label for somebody else to credit a person with, especially under the circumstances, when half the people sitting in the church probably had this face on

Made me a bit angry and sad for all the people in the room to whom she'd been vindictive, manipulative and cruel.

Also confirmed some of my feelings about religion in general often being a smokescreen/excuse for all sorts of other behaviour.

Why do certain people feel they have the right to label anyone anything? Is it the dog collar and assumed position of authority?

OP posts:

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 08:43

elizabeth I totally agree, and have met many wonderful religious/non-religious people - nothing to do with their religion.

I guess what I mean is sometimes mean and cruel people who also happen to be religious sometimes seem to use it to make themselves seem 'better' than they are, almost as a counterweight to their other behaviour. Or maybe that's just my perception, and they themselves don't link the two things at all

I absolutely try not to judge people at all as I've been taught many lessons in life by many different kinds of people. I think I just struggle with my feelings on religion sometimes, and at times like this funeral I found it especially difficult when a lot of things seemed so hypocritical about the eulogy.

OP posts:

RoxyRobin · 23/09/2011 08:53

At least the priest at my MIL's funeral said "She was no saint". Though seeing as she was, in fact, a right evil cow who caused a lot of distress in her time, this was a bit like those reports in the local rag where some yob has been asbo'd after setting fire to all the wheelie bins in the area before putting a brick through the offie window and urinating on the war memorial, whereupon his ma pops up to declare "He's no angel"!

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 08:54

OP posts:

ElizabethDarcy · 23/09/2011 09:04

I get frustrated by hypocrisy too, big time. From church folk and non church folk.

I think at a funeral people will sometimes over exaggerate how wonderful someone is, anyhow. I would take it with a pinch of salt, the whole 'how holy she was' bit (ugh, I so dislike that word in that context... honestly!). People aren't 'holy'... I would've cringed as much as you methinks ;)

It might surprise you, but I don't even like calling myself 'religious'... yes I might go to church and be a devout Christian... but I dislike the tradition of religion that people insist on. I enjoy reading my Bible in church as much as in a field somewhere. The term 'being religious' has such connotations for me and I prefer to distance myself from that. I don't even wish to be known as an Anglican (it just happens to be the denominational church I attend)... I am just a Christian. I think you can tell how much I dislike boxing people hehe.

Rest assured that there were MANY who weren't fooled in the funeral service (except the vicar, to whom she was all sweetness and light ... )

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 09:06

elizabeth despite our different beliefs I think we're on the same wavelength!

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WhereYouLeftIt · 23/09/2011 09:15

OP, did anyone pull the vicar to one side afterwards and bring him up to speed?

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 09:22

nope, i think that would have been a bit weird. maybe another time. He was a really good friend of hers and was personally upset by it, so I think that would have been a bit mean.

OP posts:

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 09:23

and as everyone is saying, different people see different sides of people. it's fair enough. I just didn't like the way he laid the term 'holy' down on her.

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aldiwhore · 23/09/2011 09:23

My Grandma was very 'holy' in that she was very very deep into her religion. She was also a battleaxe. The vicar would never have known that side of her, and to him she probably the most committted church goer he'd met.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 23/09/2011 09:24

Actually 'holy' isn't a bad adjective if you're searching for something nice to say about someone that isn't all that kind, good or whatever. You can be holy as heck, extremely judgemental and not very nice all at the same time.... saying one thing and doing another. In our family, 'holy' is used as a perjorative term.

WhereYouLeftIt · 23/09/2011 09:36

'Holy' is surely the wrong word to use, except for long-dead saints and blessed water. He could have called her 'pious'.

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 09:36

exactly.

OP posts:

SunRaysthruClouds · 23/09/2011 10:00

OP "well, yeah, OMIF, this is kind of why I'm an atheist. Makes no sense to me"

Unrelated to the question but I can't see how the behaviour of other people in the context of religion can affect whether you believe in God or not. Belief in a deity would depend on how you feel in yourself, not because some 'devout' Christians are bastards in their spare time.

WRT your OP I knew loads of people when I used to go to church who would be perfect and holy on Sunday mornings but whose behaviour the rest of the time didn't seem to match. I believe they didn't notice or realise the difference. And some people possibly still are misguided enough to think that abusive behaviour, in the context of a 'loving Christian guiding hand' is helpful to the recipient.

wigglesrock · 23/09/2011 10:07

Where I am holy is a word used to decribe someone when you can't think of amything else nice to say but they go to Mass - sort of an eyerolling thing, especially if they are involved in churchy things. An insult but not quite - akin to "they'd climb into the crib if there was room".

Meteorite · 23/09/2011 10:14

YANBU. It's possible for holiness/goodness to be demonstrated through any one of us, but not a single one of us is "holy", only God is.

Original poster

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 10:21

yes yes sunrays obviously there are other reasons why I'm not religious as well. Was just strongly agreeing with previous post.

meteorite - exactly. I didn't think ordinary people could be 'holy'

wiggles interesting! - wish the vicar had meant that, but sadly doubt it

OP posts:

ElizabethDarcy · 23/09/2011 10:21

'elizabeth despite our different beliefs I think we're on the same wavelength!'

Red I agree!

chill1243 · 23/09/2011 10:22

Its a bit much to call someone "holy" because the more you know about people, the more you realise we all have feet of clay. So HOLY is a tad OTT

WineAndPizza · 23/09/2011 12:06

"Why do certain people feel they have the right to label anyone anything? Is it the dog collar and assumed position of authority?"

I don't get this part - who are these 'certain people'? Assume from your next sentence that it's vicars/priests/other members of the clergy.

I think everybody puts labels on other people. You have done so yourself and I would imagine anyone giving a eulogy would assign people characteristics...kind, loving, generous etc...it's nothing to do with his religion or authority, it's his job on that occasion.

You seem to be objecting to that as well as the word itself - fair enough on that point but you obviously knew different versions of the same person. I'd be surprised if a vicar stood up at a funeral and called someone a bitch.

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