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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that nurses working in the UK should have a good standard of spoken English?

47 replies

AKMD · 20/09/2011 21:53

I had a serious op a couple of weeks ago followed by a week's stay on a ward. The day I was due to go home I had a nurse in charge of my bay who was from another EU country but whose English wasn't to a high enough standard to enable her to:

a) be handed over to properly by the nurse leacing form the night shift; she was continually getting confused over which patient was which and what was wrong with them;
b) explain to me how to change my wound dressings;
c) tell me what the drugs I was being sent home with were for;
d) answer the question I asked rather than a question that I hadn't but was vaguely related to a few words I said;
e) communicate effectively with the very old and confused (dementia?) woman in the bed next to me, who got really upset because she didn't understand what was happening to her.

AIBU to think that nurses working in the UK should have a high enough standard of spoken English to do a, b, c, d and e? In my whole stay I only met one native English nurse but the last one was the only one who had a language problem.

OP posts:
Original poster
AKMD · 20/09/2011 21:54

leaving from sorry!

OP posts:
Mightimama · 20/09/2011 21:55

YANBU - Im all for equal rights but it does make it very hard/impossible to communicate without a translator....

Sirzy · 20/09/2011 21:56

YANBU. They should have to speak english to a standard that they can be understood by the patients as communication is such a key role in the job

slavetofilofax · 20/09/2011 21:57

YANBU. You would think that in a caring role, communication skills would be very near the top of the list of requirements. It is unfair on her, her colleagues and the patients.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 20/09/2011 22:31

Are you sure she was a nurse? Sorry, sounds silly I know, but nursing is a graduate profession, so if she was educated here, she surely must have had good enough English to do that, and if she was educated abroad, she'd have to pass the English requirements to get a work visa. I wonder if maybe she was some other kind of supporting role? It does seem very odd and very poor that she couldn't make herself understood. Did you complain?

Original poster
AKMD · 20/09/2011 22:34

Yes, she was definitely a nurse. Her English was good enough for her to tell someone else what she wanted to say, but not good enough to understand what was being said to her so that she could respond appropriately. If that makes any sense... I didn't complain because I had already complained about another member of staff for something far more serious and I wanted that complaint to be taken seriously rather than chlked up to a serial-complainer IYSWIM.

OP posts:
BakeliteBelle · 20/09/2011 22:36

That's really dreadful. Probably a sign of how desperate staffing issues are in some areas in the NHS. Not good

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 20/09/2011 22:37

YANBU

Robert Winston wrote a very good article about this recently. Apparently the Govt's hands are tied because of some EU directive which means that nurses (and others) should be allowed to travel and work freely, with no assessments of either language or technical skills. Not sure about what happens to non-EU workers, but completey agree with you AKMD.

worraliberty · 20/09/2011 22:37

YANBU its the same for anyone working with the general public

You need to be able to communicate effectively.

kelly2000 · 20/09/2011 22:39

LRD,
If she was from the EU she has an automatic right to work here and if her qualifications are from the EU she has an automatic right to have them recognized here. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling it is up to either the hospital or local health authority to decide if their english is good enough, there is no national standard.
It is nothing to do with equal rights, language abilty is a skill just like any other including nursing and she did not posess that skill.

Pseudonym99 · 20/09/2011 22:42

Well, if nurses cannot make themselves understood, then any consent you give will be invalid. Therefore if you are not happy do not sign any consent forms or anything of that nature.

Ismeyes · 20/09/2011 22:44

Nursing is not yet an all graduate profession actually. They have phased out the diploma of higher education for nursing for new students but do not have the funds and spare staff to top up the existing workforce who do not have degrees.

Although if you think nurses' language skills can be bad, consider the doctors who are equally as bad.

worraliberty · 20/09/2011 22:47

I have to say in all my life I have never met a foreign Doctor or Consultant who hasn't spoken excellent English.

Sometimes the accent can be a little hard to understand but IME they tend to be aware of that so slow/tone it down.

redwineformethanks · 20/09/2011 22:47

I had similar problem when my daughter was discharged after plastic surgery. The Doctor was trying to tell me what to do / what to look out for and I was embarrassed that I couldn't understand him. Eventually the nurse said she would explain after he left us and he continued with his rounds.

babynamesgrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 20/09/2011 22:50

YANBU but the hospital would prefer to hire people with good English I'm sure, so there clearly aren't enough candidates and second to the perfect candidate they have to choose someone who can do the job.

If I were abroad I would still choose to go to a doctor who wouldn't understand me over no doctor at all

Driftwood999 · 20/09/2011 23:00

Mightimama I'm not sure what you mean by "equal rights"? The context of the OP's post, is a patient being in a vulnerable position, yet aware (thankfully) of the shortcomings in quality of care and that of another patient.

Original poster
AKMD · 20/09/2011 23:03

babynames I would expect communication with the patient to be a vital part of the job description. If she had been discharging the lady in the bed next to me, she would have gone home without a clue what to do and could have become really ill again.

OP posts:
Driftwood999 · 20/09/2011 23:06

OK, having caught up with some of the comments, I now understand it's about the EU! and beyond!

ggirl · 20/09/2011 23:07

yanbu
Excellent communication skills are the most important skills a nurse has.
I ama nurse and would never consider working somewhere that I could not converse in the language at the highest level.
There is a shortage of nursing posts atm , loads of newly qualified nurses without jobs ,beggars belief why they hire someone without basic skills

FootballFriendSays · 20/09/2011 23:11

Of course YANBU.

I'm concerned, however, about your first point "handed over to properly by the nurse leacing form the night shift; she was continually getting confused over which patient was which and what was wrong with them" as you shouldn't be able to overhear that kind of stuff, patient confidentiality and all that.

Original poster
AKMD · 20/09/2011 23:15

NHS unfortunately Football. The bay only had 4 beds but the privacy curtain wasn't sound-proof.

OP posts:
babynamesgrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 20/09/2011 23:17

AKMD it may be that it was this woman or no nurse at all is the point I am making.

ggirl · 20/09/2011 23:38

was she an agency nurse
sounds like she was unfamiliar with bed numbers etc which makes handover difficult
agree that bed handovers are crap for pt confidentiality but tbh conifdentiality for pts in a bay is crap anyway

Pseudonym99 · 21/09/2011 01:03

www.ehi.co.uk/news/primary-care/7178/cfh-removes-door-entry-codes-from-pds

They cannot even keep door codes for vulnerable patients secret.

allbie · 21/09/2011 11:15

Could she draw? Maybe it would have been better with diagrammatical representation? Only joking! I work in the nhs and have this problem regularly!

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