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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that rights/wrongs aside, a council needing to make £300m cuts should focus it's funds somewhere other than evicting gypsies?

744 replies

Blubell · 19/09/2011 12:32

I know there are massive fors and againsts in the Dale Farm evictions, and I don't want to start a big travellers debate, but in this time of austerity measures, and the fact that Essex council needs to cut £300m in 3 years, is evicting the site now, when it's a case that has been going on for 10 years really the best way to spend the little cash they have? Its been reported it's going to cost the council £18m to return the site - which used to be a scrapyard so hardly a place of outstanding beauty - back to greenbelt, how many carers, libraries etc will be lost to fund that? Just a thought.......

OP posts:
SarahStratton · 20/09/2011 19:31

They are being evicted because they are living on an illegal site. They may own the land, but it is Green Belt land and they do not have planning permission to build on it, as they have done.

They have tried every court of appeal to change this, and lost. Therefore they have to leave. Just as anyone else would. It is as simple as that.

It has nothing to do with race or prejudice.
Nothing to do with how they behave or whether they shit in loos or woods.
Nothing to do with anything but the fact that they are living where they shouldn't.

onagar · 20/09/2011 19:34

suburbophobe

Let's see what's wrong with your post.

Well, everyone has a right to a home, shelter, even if it is not to your liking or specifications etc.

Wrong. There is a thing called planning permission and we have laws about it. Look them up before giving us your gems of wisdom.

Why should these people be evicted, actually...?

Because they have no legal right to live where they are.

Who fucked up over 300 million??

YOU are the one who was stupid enough to pay those taxes. And now you want to blame them.....

If you had read properly you would realise there is no connection between the eviction and the 300 million. Except in the sense that dealing with these criminals is costing us more money.

Thank you for your view that we should not pay taxes. Please call your local tax office and tell them your name and address and point of view.

SarahStratton · 20/09/2011 19:39

What £300 million would this be? The evictions are costing £18 mil I thought? And is there any reason why this shouldn't be recouped by sending in the bailiffs to their Irish homes?

onagar · 20/09/2011 19:41

aliceliddell

I take it none of the 'travellers shit' brigade have frequented the tower block lifts and stairwells of inner London recently? Not areas often used by travellers, but ankle deep in urine. Male urine, almost exclusively. Should we evict all the men for untoward weeing?

So because someone else does it it is ok?

btw I notice you say it was male urine. Did you check or is that just more unreasoning prejudice on your part. Don't I recognise your name from the hate male section of MN?

SarahStratton · 20/09/2011 19:44

Blimey, how the hell do you reconcile supporting Travellers with your opinion of men? Considering their women are possibly some of the most downtrodden, subordinate women in Britain.

MilaMae · 20/09/2011 19:48

They have Irish homes.Shock

Errr why have they been offered council accommodation?

It's kind of irritating as it is given there will be plenty patiently waiting on the list which Dale farm residents get to jump just because they've broken the law and are being evicted.

If they have homes anyway in Ireland that's just plain ridiculous.

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/09/2011 19:56

Do we actually have the ability to send bailiffs into places abroad then? It's Southern ireland.

TBH the oens that have homes in Ireland OK- I get that argument as to why house them etc. But whilst it's some it is by no means all and I think that needs to be separated down. It is possible to break the group down into different sections after all yet somehow debates about travellers always end up like this- theya re all / non taxpayers / honest and hard working / scum / delightful... er like everyone else there's a mix in there.

SarahStratton · 20/09/2011 20:03

Probably not SMA.

I think part of the problem is a tendency to forget that, as a whole, the entire group facing eviction are made up of a few extended families. Who are very likely related anyway. And they do look after each other in a way that we have now lost, by and large. So although there are only a certain percentage who own homes back in Ireland, it's highly likely that as families they are mostly involved.

IYSWIM, because that seems awfully confusing even to me.

AnneWiddecomesArse · 20/09/2011 20:12

How can a single camp become one of the "biggest" issues in Britain ?
Because the "Travellers" are the biggest racists in Britain (and Europe).

The travellers consider themselves outside the law. Their "own" spokeswoman was turfed off the site and intimidated (see last nights Channel 4 documentary).
I'm still awaiting Mathstake on shit on a doorstep.
I would love to hear it.

WhereYouLeftIt · 20/09/2011 20:20

"I think part of the problem is a tendency to forget that, as a whole, the entire group facing eviction are made up of a few extended families."

Which put me in mind of all those stories recently about the difference it would make if the 120,000 most troubled families in the country could be turned around. And various stories about once one ASBO family was moved, local crime rates dropped massively.

Essentially, we as a society are not set up to deal with the small number of individuals who will not "play nice" with the rest of us.

AnneWiddecomesArse · 20/09/2011 20:40

No. Whereyouleftit. We play nice.

Until we're proved otherwise.

alemci · 20/09/2011 20:51

i think we've played far too nice with them generally. i think that is the problem.

I don't think some of them have been particularly nice to the local residents from things I have read over the last few weeks.

SarahStratton · 20/09/2011 20:57

It will be a long wait Anne, Math only answers the questions she doesn't deem beneath her. Which is pretty much all of them. Although, if you're really lucky, you might get a massive missive randomly C&P'd from some obscure site that just happens to support her viewpoint.

mankyminks · 20/09/2011 21:05

see other thread Sarah : Dale Farm et all in "in the news" (sorry,no idea how to do links) she does the same there.

LadyBeagleEyes · 20/09/2011 21:06

And to maths, I've been reading all the threads about Dale Farm, and contributed little because I've had very little experience of travellers.
I am interested in both points of view and am still undecided, but googling and referring to newspaper articles from you does not convince me. You sound like a student writing a thesis with no life experience at all.
I think with your expert knowledge about travellers you should move on to one of their sites and save the day and also get some first hand knowledge.
And yes, I'm still first in the queue to crap in your garden.
It's cultural innit?

AnneWiddecomesArse · 20/09/2011 21:06

A very simple question...Are we all allowed to shit in the woods ?

mankyminks · 20/09/2011 21:14

Only if your family has been doing it for generations AnneW Grin

AnneWiddecomesArse · 20/09/2011 21:31

Why's Bluebell's post above ^ in blue ?

AnneWiddecomesArse · 20/09/2011 21:37

Oh forget that, It's because it's the OP.
Not to waste a post..

Human shit everywhere. It's the Traveller culture. They don't shit in their own caravans. They shit elsewhere.
May I ask ONE SINGLE traveller to justify this practice in terms of basic human hygiene... if the rest of the UK population did the same.

BakeliteBelle · 20/09/2011 22:46

LadyBeagle spot on. I'm not sure Math is at thesis level yet though...maybe A Level or first year at University doing Sociology or Social Anthropology

CoteDAzur · 20/09/2011 23:05

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect one's neighbors to be housebroken.

mankyminks · 20/09/2011 23:14

O,it is CoteDAzur. When one of your traditions is to be non housebroken!! Come to think of it,we have a lovely park only a couple of minutes up the road. I might start using that for my toiletting needs as my family has refused the evil product that is called 'bleach' for generations now and it's impossible to keep my toilet at home clean... Can take the dog too,save a bit of time.

mankyminks · 21/09/2011 12:22

Just read the Travellers that left Dale farm ahead of the planned eviction on Monday have popped up in Stockwood Park in Luton,using bolt cutters to gain entry. That's illegal innit?? "Gentleman start your engines" and trot off. No not tomorrow,NOW. Kindly follow me to the police station where we will arrest you for break in and entry. Here's a bill for cost of legal proceedings and any damage you have done to the park. Local council has started legal proceedings to evict them....... Slap a 'for sale' sign on your van or any possessions you may have in case you don't have any cash at hand!! Equality and all that....

OpinionatedMum · 21/09/2011 12:26

I wonder how long it will take and how much it will cost to evict them....

mankyminks · 21/09/2011 13:35

Should be out in 24hrs,any cost to be paid by the ones breaking the law,that's how it works for you and me so if we want equal rights for all then we also have equal obligations and laws for all. Looks good on 'paper' doesn't it. Now how it's going to go in the REAL world,we will have to see.Start with security at the gates,anyone going out (they will have to at some point) ain't coming back in. Forgot your caravan? No problem we'll drag that out for you in no time. O,and any cost as a result of that are yours too.Can't pay? No problem,we can always sell your van and caravan towards it. No more piss taking. Time we put our foot down.