to not want my left-handed child to have to use a fountain pen ...

[Nickoka]

Child is in year 5. The school previously tried to get year 6s to use fountain pens but this year has extended policy to year 5.

My DD writes slowly and with 'hook hand' sometimes, so I bought her the Stabilo left handed rollerball pen in the holidays. The teacher however has issued (right handed) fountain pens and wants the kids to use them for everything but maths. I had a meeting with teacher. He was nice and it was a reasonable discussion. Teacher's argument was they wanted all children to be the same. However I think fountain pens are a rubbish idea in the 21st century for left handed children, just causing smudging and frustration. I don't want to buy a left-handed one as suggested by the teacher. Am I just being stubborn or am I right to fight this? Views from lefties particularly sought!

complexnumber

What is the attitude in schools towards left handers ? In my mother's time her left arm was tied behind her back or she whacked with a ruler if she used the "wrong" hand. Perhaps if the "left hand is dirty" belief still holds sway there is still a enough predudice to lead to a tendency towards making lefties live as righties and that is why there are so few around ?

Like most lefties I was taught how to write by a right handed teacher. So we were taught to postition the hand NOT hovering, but supported by the side of the hand on the paper. Hovering was strongly discouraged becuase it offered a lesser degree of control. It worked out just fine for the righties, they had clean paper for their supporting hand and a full view of what they had just written. Not so good for me becuase I was supporting my hand on top of what I had just written (not a huge smudge issue cos it was pencil) and I was covering up what I had just written (much more of an issue for younger children).

By the time I was ten a supported postion with an odd angle at the wrist to leave at least a bit of what I had written visible, was more of less fixed as the way I wrote. Then entered the fountain pen and it all went horribly wrong smudgewise.

I've watched a few vids of arabic being written and the hover postion or the "below the line of writing" support postion seem to be used. Perhaps arabic children are actively taught these writing postions to allow both visibility and avioding the drag smudges ?

Being the majority in terms of favoured hand, therefore the issues of position impacting drag/visibility being widespread unless addressed at the earliest point of education, that seems a likely explanation.

Euphemia

Seconding you wholeheartedly.

"why why why, just why do children need to use fountain pens in this day and age?"

I keep asking this question and nobody can tell me. I thought it was just private school parent pleasing nonsense, like boaters and knickerbockers, but it seems some state schools do it too.

I'm not sure why I am arguing it-I don't know a school that uses them! I have however looked out my fountain pen and am going to use it!

Regardless of pen, the concept of everyone being the same is compeltely outmoded! Everys chool I ahve helped at or spent time in teaches children to acknowledge and respect differences- it's a key skill when dealing with cultural differences and all the rest of it later on. My child is different adn deserves the chance to achieve in the smae way as her peers (and for her that's not a fountain pen) is as relevant with this as any other difference.

I give it til half term before the school has had enough of them leaking in bags/pockets/on desks, kids flicking ink across the classroom, biting the cartridge etc. That's what happened in my school and that was a naice all girls secondary!

Thanks for all your comments. Very interesting to get the full spectrum of views!

This is a state school we are talking about here.

We've got parents' evening in mid October so I think DD will have to carry on with the right handed fountain pen ('cos I really don't want to buy a left handed one. I admit it. I am stubborn!) until then and I'll have another discussion with the teacher about it all then.

If the school provide fountain pens for all the children, then they should buy in some left handed ones (same as with scissors). Presumably your dd isn't the only left handed kid in the school!! However, I expect the school bulk buy cheap pens anyway and as you say parents are encouraged to buy their own pens for their children anyway. (I am surprised the school provide them at all actually). I don't really understand your reasoning for not wanting to buy one. If your child was right handed you would probably want to buy a nicer one to write with anyway

I used a fountain pen at school and it ended up making me write like a right handed as I learnt to position my hand differently so I didn't keep smudging what I'd just written. I think I wrote with a right handed pen, which start off scratchy but the nib eventually would adjust to my style.

I agree this day and age I can't see the need to learn to write in fountain pen tho. All adults I know write in biro, and I work in a job with a huge amount of hand written paperwork.

Leftie though do lots right handed some through pressure others did myself. Writing has never been great teacher didn't even notice I was left handed just kept telling me off as I wrote down the page like a spider, eventually they called my parents in thats when they found out I was LH!! they were teaching us to write 1 word put our index finger at the end of the word and then write the next word to get spacing. Maybe this is why so many leftie's write with a hook however i don't. Tried fountain pens and LH nibs no real sucess. Hate ballpoints, love biros. Cannot use a guillotine and find doors difficult.

Good luck I would be stroppy if it were mine.

I'm left handed and often use fountain pens. I have several, with different coloured inks!

What's a left handed fountain pen? A calligraphy pen? Most fountain pens are suitable for left or right handers surely?

I don't think that you ABU. Is it just the one teacher in the school or is it a pushy head that has issued the direction? Schools should limit themselves to that of offering suggestions, but should not be dictatorial about writing impliment.

I think your daughter should be given the oportunity to try different pens and then use the one that she finds most comfortable.

When I did my O level English (yes, I am old) the teacher insisted everybody use a fountain pen because he said it improved everybody's writing and I think for most people he is right. Using a fountain pen slows you down and it flows better if you have a half decent one and they mould to your style so that we were told never to borrow somebody else's fountain pen as you ruin the nib. I loved that pen when it was worn in.

I am not a left handed but I don't see why a left hander wouldn't just wear a square nib to suit themselves. I wouldn't have thought there was any particular advantage to a left handed pen. My DS is left handed and dyspraxic so there isn't much hope for him as far as handwriting goes but I think it is shame that he never got to try a fountain pen at primary school. It takes a bit of getting used to but it is worth the effort. Maybe I should get him to give it a go now I have heard so many positive stories from lefties on this thread.

OP I think you might be ABU if your DD hasn't tried it for a while. If she does indeed make a real mess you are in a stronger position for using something else.

I'm a lefty too, and had to use a fountain pen throughout my school years, and the only advice I can give is parker pens. They are suitable for lefties, but they are easy to get hold of as you don't have to go to a specialist shop (makes them cheaper too!)

I still use my parker pen, even at work and as I don't 'hook hand' (which looks bizarre to me!) there is no smudging involved.

You might think fountain pens are out moded, perhaps they are, but I always write with one and I always sign typewritten letters with one.

There was a lovely article this week that ICBA to link to - showing the demise of the written work and the rise of texting means A level papers are often written in print rather than cursive. Bit sad really, when 18yos leave school not able to do 'joined up' writing.

Another left hander who successfully used a standard Parker fountain pen from Smiths throughout school from aged about 8 (I think) through to sixth form. I was never a hook writer though... I did turn my workbook 45 degrees to stay smudge free.

fight it! I'm left handed and fountain pen writing was a pain in the arse when I was growing up

WHY does it have to be a fountain pen, bloody stupid

I still print my work, I never join my letters and I'm 34 now. My dad never did either and both he and my grandad wrote in tiny capitals. Both very intelligent men.

Most people are right handed. Some languages (e.g. Arabic) are written from the rigth side of the page to the left. They manage. One of my arabic speaking friends said that you just turn the page at an angle so you don't smudge it.

PS I'm going to dig out my own fountain pen now. May they never fall out of useage

YANBU! I am a lefty and having th use a fountain pen made a really big deal of this as I also write with a slight claw so would smear my work. I always felt different and clumsy. Since moving to a biro at about the age of 13 I have never give my left-handedness another thought.

I think the main problems here is not the left handedness, but being left handed combined with the hook writing. That is what's going to be a problem with a fountain pen. Stock up on stain remover for shirts and jumpers!

I'm left handed and can't recall ever having any particular problem using one. Maybe I did but most lefties just adapt because we have to, often without realising things are much harder for us than they have to be.

TheFallenMadonna - left-handed fountain pen is designed so the ink flows from left hand side of the nib rather than the right-hand side. When lefties write with a right-handed pen, they are relying on enough ink coming out the "wrong" side of the pen (the side furthest from the paper) to be able to write. Since there is more ink, there are more smudges. It's possible as a leftie to write with a right-handed fountain pen, but actually much easier and neater with a left-handed one!