Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

to think that portable benefits should be scrapped?

48 replies

fedupalready · 15/09/2011 21:23

Cant believe that the UK is still a soft touch and handing out millions of pounds of UK tax payers money in portable child benefits to children living in Eurpean countries such as Poland, it is quite unbelievable, when only the parents need to reside in the here.................this could only happen in the UK, madness. AIBU to think that this stupid wasteful policy should be scrapped or is there a good reason why this happens?

OP posts:

littlemisssarcastic · 15/09/2011 22:56

FabbyChic From what I've read (as posted above), this doesn't always appear to be the case.

MustControlFistOfDeath · 15/09/2011 23:07

littlemiss I believe so

littlemisssarcastic · 15/09/2011 23:10

Now that looks a whole lot more expensive imo.

LDNmummy · 15/09/2011 23:20

Did the OP stop and think that the reason it is left that way is because migrant labour is what is helping prop up our economy so our government would prefer to offer these incentives for hard working foreign labourers to stay?

Plus, if the other option were for whole families to join UK resident migrants, wouldn't that possibly be more costly and thusly this be a better compromise?

stripeybump · 15/09/2011 23:25

Eh? [confused[

It is far better value for someone living and working and paying taxes in the UK just like you or I to keep their kids in Poland. Would you rather fund their education and healthcare?

Said Polish immigrant is contributing by working and being taxed, and saving us money by not using our services. Why shouldn't he claim child benefit, to which he is entitled? Would you be happier if they lived here and used our schools and hospitals?

Children are a net economic drain, so you should be thankful OP that he keeps them back at home.

Oh and I know all this because there was a thread on this about 6 months ago

Jacinda · 15/09/2011 23:28

Children, who were left behind, don't use the NHS, subsided nurseries, state schools ect, while their parent/s pay NI contributions and taxes like everyone else. Isn't it only fair that they at least get the 80 odd pounds in ChB? Only Daily Mail could turn it into big issue and yet another reason to hate immigrants.

mumblechum1 · 15/09/2011 23:32

Good point Jacinda

LDNmummy · 15/09/2011 23:55

People are so shirt sighted about how much migrant workers actually contribute to their host countries.

Daily Mail nonsense indeed Jacinda.

LDNmummy · 15/09/2011 23:57

Short sighted, not shirt sighted, silly auto correct.

littlemisssarcastic · 16/09/2011 22:42

Jacinda I see your point, I always thought it was only 80 odd quid child benefit though.
Never realised it was child tax credit and working tax credit too though.
FWIW, I have no opinion either way on whether it should be paid towards families not living in the UK, but you have to admit there's a hell of a difference between 80 odd quid a month and 580 odd quid a month?? (1 DC and maximum WTC based on minimum wage job.)

splashymcsplash · 17/09/2011 03:36

Lol at poking fun at people who come here to shock horror.. work!

Cb is a drop in the ocean compared to the tax revenue Poles contribute to the UK economy.

mumzy · 17/09/2011 06:16

There is a principle involved here from next year higher rate tax payers with resident children who live in this country will lose cb but lower rate tax payers working in UK with children living abroad can still claim cb .WTF The government really needs to get a grip on this one

olibeansmummy · 17/09/2011 07:38

If the parents are paying taxes then why the fuck shouldn't they get the same benefits as everyone else? I hate this attitude of we should get it because were British! So what? We're all people. And a lot of polish people work a damn site harder then British people doing shitty jobs we think we're too good for. If you're cutting annoyed benefits cut those of people who've never actually paid into the tax system their entire life but expect free money because they're BRITISH don't you know.

OpinionatedMum · 17/09/2011 08:03

If they work they should get the same in work benefits as everyone else. That's equality.

If they still have children to support it doesn't really matter where they live.

Stormwater · 17/09/2011 08:16

Good posts Stripeybump and Jacinda. However, I suspect the op has no interest whatsoever in actual rational facts, and will continue to believe her own brand of DM-led idiocy where women and immigrants are considered so despicable. I hate reading these threads, it just reminds me how many brainless sheep there are out there perpetuating this nonsense in the name of the economy.

niceguy2 · 17/09/2011 08:50

I don't have a problem with the principle per se. But it does seem hard to defend giving benefits for children not living in the UK when as of 2013 it will be taken away from higher rate tax payers whose children do live in the UK.

Yet another reason why the proposed changes are stupid. I really do wonder if Cameron woke up the morning of the Tory conference and thought "Hmmm, i need a headline today....what can I do?" rather than anything well thought through.

Kendodd · 17/09/2011 14:44

I don't think they should get it, I don't think any parent should get CB if the children don't live with them. See my question earlier, if a child lives with grandparents or is in care, do the parents still get CB, CTC etc? I don't know the answer to this, anyone know? And please don't raise boarding schools, we all know that is different.

One thing that I realize would be very unfair in that situation is if somebody moved here to make a bit more money to give their child a better life and support them better back in their home country. But I think the principle that a child should live with you, for you to be able to claim benefits for them is just common sense.

littlemisssarcastic · 17/09/2011 15:23

Parents whose DC live with grandparents or are in care do not receive CB or CTC for their DC AFAIK.

I see many people have commented and said workers from the EEA contribute alot to the UK. I agree with that, but am still undecided on whether it is affordable to pay CTC/WTC/CB for every family from the EEA where one parent has come to the UK to work, and their DC and partners are still living back in their country of origin.

How exactly does it stimulate our economy if we are paying for families who do not live in the UK? The money is probably sent to the partners/children back in the country they live in, and spent there, so can't see how it is stimulating our economy tbh.

Splashy I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Clarify please??

natation · 17/09/2011 16:33

It would seem reasonable that Child Benefit be paid for children not resident in the UK but still living in the EU, where the parents still however remain responsible for them. Indeed this is a reciprocal agreement throughout the EU/EEA/Switzerland. However, our CTC/WTC system does not (always) have an equivalent in the other countries, plus it can be exceptionally generous if you are in receipt of the maximum and to me it has always seemed to encourage people to work the minimum possible to get the maximum out it.

Concerning CB and CTC/WTC, the first problem however is that the UK does NOT systematically contact other EU countries to see if the parent who has made and application in the UK is not 1) claiming already in another EU country, 2) that these children really are theirs and exist -believe me, many people "borrow" the identities of extended family members' children and pass them off as their own to claim more money and since they are residing elsewhere in the EU, Child Benefit Agency etc cannot send inspectors around for visits to check these children actually exist and that they really live where parents claim they do. There is an enormous amount of benefit fraud committed, fueled by the fact that people know their fraudulent benefit claims are unlikely to ever be investigated.

The 2nd problem, and this involves many British residents/citizens who are long-time established in the UK, is that many people claim CB and then emigrate and never stop their claims, continue to receive CB every 4 weeks into a UK account. The problem is particulary accute with people who come to the UK temporarily, say as a student or temporary migrant worker, then they leave again, continuing to receive their CB for the children until they reach the age of 16.

northernruth · 17/09/2011 16:44

Seriously can hardly be arsed to even comment.

What about the hordes of feckless British benefit claimants who've never had a job in their life? (not meaning all benefit claimants are feckless but we all know of a few for whom it's a lifestyle choice) Someone needs to do a minimum wage job, leave the poor Poles alone.

And as for higher rate tax payers losing child benefit, it seems a bit ridiculous that they still get it. And we're higher rate tax payers. I'd rather my taxes went to help people that needed it, and that includes anyone willing to come to this country to do the shitwork that a lot of the British turn their back on.

HappyCamel · 17/09/2011 19:38

Yanbu. A lot of the 'children' being claimed for don't even exist. They just have to provide a birth certificate. Not exactly hard to fake.

slavetofilofax · 17/09/2011 19:46

They should only be able to claim child benefit after they have paid a certain amount of income tax in the UK.

littlemisssarcastic · 18/09/2011 00:00

northernruth Whilst I agree with the basis of your post, the consolation to the feckless British benefit claimants is that the money they receive is more than likely spent in the UK. Added to that, the people in the UK claiming benefits are likely to be subject to much more stringent controls than someone living abroad and claiming.
I am not sure tbh that there are hordes of feckless benefit claimants who've never had a job in their life tbh.

Flip

1 2