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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a school can't legally suddenly ban the headscarf for muslin girls!

678 replies

Headscarfs123 · 13/09/2011 00:15

So our local catholic school has banned the headscarf this week...disastrous for some of the girls but also against church advice that headscarfs are fine, against DFES advice about consultation and sensitivity to religious groups, against best practice as this type of change should involve the governing body? discriminatory on religious and sexist grounds...Sikh boys can keep their turbans.

Aibu to think that the school is legally in the wrong?

OP posts:
allday · 13/09/2011 08:12

There are muslim dcs at my dcs Catholic school. We live in the sticks. It seems to be a MN myth that all Catholic schools are oversubscribed and you need to be on the church cleaning rota to stand a chance of getting in.

cantspel · 13/09/2011 08:19

tethersend nuns help out in my sons school. There are not teachers but they give their time to help pupils who need extra one to one with reading, maths ect and they dress more like a maiden aunt. Sensible shoes, boring a line knee length skirts and wooly cardie and no headcovering.

lesley33 · 13/09/2011 08:23

Of course the school is in the wrong.

I think you need to first talk to the head yourself to clarify the reasons behind the ban. Then contact an equality organisation for advice on the next step. The website www.edf.org.uk/blog/ will help you to find your most local and relevant organisation.

lesley33 · 13/09/2011 08:24

cantspel - Sounds like the nuns who live in my area and do various community work. They dress just as you describe.

tulipgrower · 13/09/2011 08:24

Aren't headscarves banned in schools in Turkey? (predominantly Muslim country) Isn't it more of a tradition than a religious 'must'? (Like Christians not being required to wear a crucifix. Some do and consider it important, but God won't actually punish them for not doing it.)

I think a catholic school, should be able to have a uniform in keeping with their beliefs. (if you don't like them, you don't have to go.)

(i'd be more worried if they started teaching that a headscarf is a must for muslim women and that creationism is as scientific fact.)

lesley33 · 13/09/2011 08:29

Headscarves - the niqab - some argue aren't required by the Koran. But many Iman's of mosques in England say they are required.

Basically like saying the Bible doesn't specifically ban or lay down that you must do something, but if your Priest says you must, most worshippers will accept that they must.

StrandedBear · 13/09/2011 08:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fecklessdizzy · 13/09/2011 08:37

My DS is being discriminated against ... He goes to a C of E school and they make him leave his lightsabre at home.

Sad, but we just have to live with it.

lesley33 · 13/09/2011 08:39

And I think a catholic or christian school can insist on a uniform in line with its beliefs if it is self funding. However as they generally are mainly or totally funded by the state, then I think it is fair enough that the state lays down some rules schools have to follow.

begonyabampot · 13/09/2011 08:43

Feckless - move to NZ, think Order Of The Jedi is a recognised religion there.

tulipgrower · 13/09/2011 08:49

But allowing headscarves, which are only 'required' if the local Imam happens to deem it so, opens a huge can of worms. One could then claim almost anything in the name of a religion, incl. Bling-style crucifixes, light sabres, religious knives, rosary beads, body/war paint, ...

Animation · 13/09/2011 08:49

Basically children should not be burdened with having to wear cumbersome clothes at school. Covering heads and ears at school is cumbersome and illogical.

tulipgrower · 13/09/2011 08:50

Feckless - Over 390000 Jedi's in England and Wales (Wikipedia)

Animation · 13/09/2011 08:51

Religion is just a word that gets thrown in to rationalise cumbersome clothes wearing.

Serenitysutton · 13/09/2011 09:25

Indeed animation. One would imagine certain priests insisting on a bit of kiddy nudity- after all they should do what he says,no? That never led to problems.

A niqab is not a headscarf. A niqab covers the face partly. A headscarf is simply like wearing hat, anyone could do it and it has no religious or cultural associations specifically

Theas18 · 13/09/2011 09:59

Mixed feelings here. It's a catholic school, perhaps those who wish to wear outward symbols of faith need to consider if that is the right choice for them?

I assume the girls remove headcoverings for PE anyway and so are not of the school of muslim thinking that requires covering up at any time outside the home?

My girls go to a very mixed non denominational girls school. I have chatted to the eldest (just left) about the fact that her many muslim friends have different attitudes to head scarves and she has been told that it is a personal choice for them, they decide- some don't wear them,some wear scarves all the time, some only at religious special times and some just to and from school. One wears a scarf when she's in trouble at home LOL.

Had a really interesting moment with 12yr old DDs best mate- very tightly bundled up scarf wearing girl when we were out- she couldn't even get the 3D glasses to stay on in the cinema as she had to put them over the top. However, as we came up the drive to our house the scarf was off and she was happily playing in a house with 2 strange males (including 15yr DS in his PJs!! fortunately she has a brother in DS year so understands the scruff factor of teen boys!).

In principal I don't think it's an unreasonable move but to do it only for muslims and with not notice/consultation is not appropriate. Sikh turbans are an interesting comparison- but how else to deal with boys with long hair without some sort of top knot/turban?

I find it very interesting though that there would be an out cry about this amongst Muslims who feel strongly about the wearing of the headscarf and yet sent there girls to a mixed school- that I do find odd.

middlesex · 13/09/2011 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Animation · 13/09/2011 10:01

Serenity - I hear your pop at Catholic priests there - and I'm fine with that.

Doesn't detract though from the issue here on this thread.

You say a headscalf is like a hat - and I say yes to that... exactly. And wearing a hat all day in the classroom would also be unnecessary and cumbersome.

Kladdkaka · 13/09/2011 10:07

I don't believe that this would happen in Britain today, but just in case I'm wrong, those affected should contact the human rights ombudsman. As I understand it, people like you can support those who bring action, but you cannot bring the action yourself as you are not the person it affects.

ThePosieParker · 13/09/2011 10:10

How old are the children? Secondary or primary age?

If primary I absolutely agree and if secondary it should be considered. Many a Muslim girl wears her hijab to school and not at the weekends....rounds these parts.

ThePosieParker · 13/09/2011 10:11

Also if it's a Catholic school it's a bit tough, my dcs have to write prayers and we're atheists.

Serenitysutton · 13/09/2011 10:11

I was agreeing with you animation- I don't believe a school should pay attention to what one or a couple of religious community leaders may or may not recommend.

Animation · 13/09/2011 10:22

Sorry Serenity - thought you were saying - it's just like wearing a hat - and therefore not so bad.

Yes it basically men who have made up these rules what kids should wear - and dress these rules up under the "religion" umbrella.

I'm glad schools are overruling them - because headscalves are not practical at school.

Giddly · 13/09/2011 10:26

whenever cvhurch schools are mentioned there is always an assumption it is a "choice" to send your child there. I don't know the case in this situation, but this is nnot always true. Where I live out catchment school is C of E (VC). The schools in the surrounding villages are C of E (as well as being oversubscribed). If I chose not to send my DD to her catchment school her only other option is an underachieving school in the nearest city - 10 miles away (the good schools are all oversubscribed). I don't think that's really a "choice" if I want her to be a part of the community in which she lives.

Serenitysutton · 13/09/2011 10:26

No, I don't think you have a right to wear a baseball cap at school no reason to fight for a headscarf.

I do lean towards banning the face coverings worn by Muslim women anyway, for the reasons you mention. (although I am somewhat conflicted as I also don't really believe in banning people from wearing clothes in a free society)