Adopting/Rehoming animals - I'm trying to do the right thing but...

[FirstLeg]

...we have been contacting Shelters in the last few weeks about taking on a couple of guinea pigs. We used to have them until about 5 years ago, so know all about it, have all the kit etc.

However, we can't find ONE place that will accept us as suitable! Despite heving cared for 5 guinea pigs over the years, we aren't allowed to have any from a shelter because:
*we have a six year old (she is calm around animals and this can be seen when she visits the Shelter, plus she will be supervised when handling them/when they are out in the pen)
*our hutch is too small (it is 3 1/2 ft wide and our previous guineas were happy enough in it, it is fox/cat-proof, raised from the ground and has a nesting covered section). Apparently the RSPCA say many purpose-built hutches are too small...
*we will be keeping the guineas outside. Apparently they need to be in a shed in the winter. No-one told our old guineas that.
*one shelter wanted to do a home visit, but then told us we lived too far away...

Of course, if we went to the pet shop, we could of course just walk away with as many guineas as we want. Friends of ours keep their guineas outside, have the same size hutch, and have toddlers ffs.

I do accept that Shelters can't just hand over animals willy-nilly, but with all these restrictions, I suspect many of their guinea pigs will never find a home .

Thanks DogsBestFriend - have PM'd you...

duchesse I have to say, I suspect our sheltered spot outside the back door with a rug over the hutch is probably at least as warm as being in an unheated shed, which is likely to be away from the house and so the guineas would be more isolated...

Ideally we are looking for non-fancy fur guineas as they are easiest to care for, but i agree, their coats do get thicker iin winter.

OP, I have a friend who kept Guinea Pigs outside all year round and they froze to death in a severe cold snap one winter. It does happen sadly, I've heard of rabbits suffering the same fate as well.

The Andes is a big area and some of it is pretty warm. Your Guineas may have lived outside happily but most care sheets and books will say the same, which is that they are not especially hardy animals (certainly less so than rabbits) and that they should be in a shed etc in the winter. The centres will have to stick to the husbandry rules that they are given.

MilkandWine - I am sure it does happen, and when it does, it will stick in your mind. However, you won't know about all the perfectly fine guinea pigs who live outside quite happily. It is like the old chestnut about how cars should be banned because they kill people - yes they do, and in those cases it is horrific, but millions of journeys are made that pass with no incident...

I have been looking around - even the RSPCA advice says that you can keep them outside...it really does seem like there is no consensus, in which case as I can show evidence of my 'facilities' being successful in the past, I should be allowed to rehome now.

Just because you have always kept an animal a certain way, doesnt make it the right way to keep that animal. Tortoises used to have holes drilled in their shells, so that they could be tied to things, and were fed on dogfood.
They suffered in silence for years, before welfare societies actually worked out how they should be kept. Dogs were chained in gardens and had their tails cut off.
Things change, people improve care standards.
Rescue centres have high expectations, because they want the best for animals. You could very well go and buy two guinea pigs from a pet shop, and keep them the same way that you always have done. But, surely, if you are willing to adopt in the first place, you have the animals best interests at heart. Meet the rescue centre standards, give your potential pets the best life you can, or dont bother.

i know nothing about the care of guinea pigs but just wanted to add, that our pets at home have a rehoming section, which is actually from a smaller local rescue and is not actually "pets at home" doing the rehoming, they are just advertising for the rescue.

So the same rules will apply re homechecking etc but you often find that with smaller lesser known rescues, the rules are not as strict....it might be worth a look.

Cee I understand your post, and I do agree - it is the kind of stance I usually take. I take pet-keeping seriously, hence my wanting to rehome, not buy.
In this instance though, where expert advice is not in agreement I feel like the Shelters are being too careful, to the detrimient of the guinea pids in their care...

I found the same problem with the rigid requirements ofanimal shelters when we tried to adopt 2 rabbits. One shelter insisted on a hutch with an outdoor area attached and the size of the hutch had to be larger than any I could find locally or on ebay.

We bought 2 of the largest hutches we could buy and then adopted one rabbit from Pets at Home and were given a pedigree but infertile female from a breeder. Every day they are taken out of their hutches in the morning to run around our escape-proof lawns and garden until dusk, when they go back into their hutches overnight. They have shelter from the rain and water bottles to drink from. When we go out during the day they are in a 12' x 6' run on the patio. Their hutches are insolated for warmth and if it's very cold they will be relocated into the garage.

I think these arrangements are OK. It's just a shame that 2 bunnies from the shelter we contacted aren't enjoying the same lifestyle.

i wanted a dog from a resue centre, but got turned down as i had young children and worked.

they wouldn't even do a home visit.

it has put me off, so now i am trying to find a puppy that is not a pedigree as i know most people over breed pedigree dogs.

Such a shame! I remember trying to adopt a cat from our local rescue, we already had one rather anti-social typical moggy (Saw us as the staff ha ha) and when the inspector finally came round (About 4 months after initial phone call) she said she would not allow us to take on another cat as the house was empty between 8:30 and 3:30 - Typical school day etc.

However they have just let a friend of mine take 2 kittens when she lives in a household that is used for childminding AND have 2 dogs! Was gobsmacked - Wouldn't bother with the RSPCA place again, would go to a local smaller one, which is where we got our second cat from eventually and both the cats are doing fantastically well and love each other and love having their own time!

Try somewhere more independant?

Auntie, the problem with buying a puppy that is not a pedigree is that at best you will buy from a back yard breeder, worse still from a puppy farmer. A good breeder or a good rescue will be equally careful about rehoming with children and to those out of the home for more than 4 hours a day unless they will make arrangements for a dogwalker and both will carry out vet checks and insist upon neutering (which rescue should do before rehoming), vaccinate and so on. A good breeder will also breed only to improve breed lines and not for profit and like a decent rescue will take the dog back at any time in his life if you can't keep him.

A breeder of a non pedigree is known as a backyard breeder and will breed ONLY for profit/so the kids can see pups born/because his dog is cute and they think it's a fun idea ir similar and NOT for showing and/or breed line improvement and maintainance. :( They won't carry out essential health screens on pups and parents, won't take the dog back in 10 years time if you lose your home or get ill, won't ensure he is neutered and won't be there to support and advise for life.

Please believe me - if they won't do all the above, if they advertise pups on epupz, Gumtree, Pets4Homes, if they haven't ALREADY got homes AND a reserve list for their pups BEFORE breeding their bitch, they are BAD breeders and you shouldn't touch them with a bargepole. If they have KC registration for their pups and/or parent dogs it means fuck all, 90% of puppy farmed dogs are KC reg.

Bear in mind too that many, if not most puppy farmers these days are hard for the uninitiated to spot. They often use "fake" families and homes when they invite you to meet their pups as well as show you a bitch which is not the mother though they claim her to be. Instead of showing you the real environment that the pups are raised in - with mothers bred every 6 months, no vet treatment, interbreeding, very young bitches bred or over 5 yo bitches bred, they will invite you to the home of a family who they've set up/paid or who are friends/relations to make you believe that you're buying from a nice normal family like your own.

FirstLeg -- we were turned down for rehoming after one of our GPs died because our remaining GP 'looked in poor condition' and had bald patches... which the vet says are stress-induced as she's grieving for her companion! She was all fine and furry before he snuffed it.

So, pet shop for us too, I think. Like you, we did try to do the responsible thing first, but this is the only way she'll get a new pal (unless anyone here has a nice neutered male who'd like the life of Riley?).

I believe all you say DBF because I know this is your area of expertise.

But I do think it is perfectly possible to get a puppy from a genuine home. Unfortunately this means that the owners have been irresponsible in that they havent had their dogs neutered.

I got my cross breed from a genuine couple. It would have been very hard to set up a scam in their situation. They would have had to involve the Royal Horse Guards (long story but true!).

I was amazed at the amount of dogs available on the websites you mention. They were all new to me as I had always had rescue dogs before.

I really would like to try for a rescue when I get my next dog (we have an elderly terrier and when he has gone I will probably get another chi x).

But I have to be honest and say i dont hold out much hope for us. As a person with a lot of experience with dogs and children I am confident we can provide a safe and loving home but I am afraid I just dont get that feeling from the rescues we have tried in the past.

I know the type of dog I want and I have good reasons for my choice, based around our lifestyle etc. Chihuahaus suit us and I have only ever had cross breeds hence my current chi x pom. I know we dont have the time to give a terrier enough exercise etc so I thought long and hard about my choice.

I hear that there are far more 'handbag' dogs in rescue centres now so perhaps we will be able to re-home. I worry about the amount of work a pampered, untrained snappy baby dolly dog would take though.

I did try and contact breed specific rescues before we got our Atticus but I didnt get a single answer.

Perhaps when the time comes you could point me in the right direction?

We had a really good experience of rescuing (a dog, not a Guinea Pig), despite us working and having a 3 year old. We were homechecked for a specific dog only - reflecting the fact that marrying the right dog to the right home is more important than the perfect home.

We've had our little friend for over a year and its worked out so well, hes a lovely little fella who adores DS (and vice versa). He sleeps on the days (1-2 a week) when hes home alone, and still sleeps when DH works from home, only in his office. We couldn't have found a more perfect dog for us.

We kept GPs all through my childhood and had several litters too. They were against a wall so sheltered from the elements but kept outside all winter. We did have issues with babies with heat stroke though!!!

MrsDeVere - can I suggest you try www.littledogrescue.co.uk

I will - thanks for that link chilli

MrsDV, I agree that folk can find the type of accidental breeder you mention but these days it's increasingly rare and puppy farmers/deliberate backyard breeders are by far in the majority and sadly on the increase.

I'd be delighted to try and help if and when you need it, though I hope that any help won't be needed for a long time yet.

I will say this though... when I lost to cancer my little collie cross girl, an ex pound dog I'd had since she was about 8 years old, I went looking for a similar collie cross girl of about 4 to 6 yo.

There was nothing in local rescue to suit that criteria.

Then I met a 9 year old bloody great huge, male long haired white pedigree German Shepherd Dog, my introduction to the breed that are now the one closest to my heart. He lived with us for 4 all too short years until I lost him to degenerative myelopathy, the canine version of human MS... and he was PERFECT for us, the best dog any person could ever ask for and I know in my heart though it hurts and shames me to admit this, that no dog since has or will ever match his perfection.

That taught me, as experience in rescue has confirmed, that the question isn't, or shouldn't be "Can you provide me with a dog which is like X Y and Z" but "Can you provide me with a dog which is right for us, even if he is the wrong sex, the wrong breed, the wrong age and the wrong everything that I have in mind"... because trust me, a good rescue, if they have such a dog, will be able to do just that and offer you a dog as perfect for you and yours as my Shane was to us.

YABU I'm afraid.

Six Year Old Child. Not all rescues will see this as an issue, provided the family are clear that responsibility for care of the pet will rest squarely with the adults. Children can help out with the care of animals, but far, far too many pets suffer in a battle of wills between parent and child who was "supposed" to look after the animal and doesn't, has got bored with it, etc. If you are prepared to care for the animals for their potential 8 year lifespan, pay for care during your holidays and cover possible vet bills (one of mine cost nearly a grand over its lifetime,) then there will probably be a rescue that won't mind the fact that you have children.

Outdoors vs Indoors. Guinea pigs DO originate from the Andes, which has a cold but dry climate. Britain has a very cold and damp climate and guinea pigs are prone to fungal skin infections, particularly if kept outdoors. One of mine came from a rescue. He was only 2 weeks when brought in covered in painful, weeping fungal sores. His owners hadn't realised their outdoor-kept pets were so sick until it was almost too late (and they decided they were bored with them, so dumped them at the rescue.)

That's another problem with keeping guineas outdoors. Being at the bottom of the food chain, they are good at "covering up" when they are ill. If you just go out to feed them once or twice a day, you may not spot something is wrong until it's too late. Oh, and the chances of a fox attack indoors is pretty well nil.

Personally, I can't understand why anyone would wish to have a pet outdoors, unless it's physically impossible to keep it indoors (e.g. a horse.) In the US, it's not uncommon for dogs and cats to live outdoors all weathers and people in the UK often think that is cruel, yet have no qualms about having a rabbit or cavy in the same condition. If the animal is outdoors, it's much easier to ignore, easier to think of more fun things to do that don't involve going out in the wet and the rain, easy to "forget" to feed, water, groom and check the animal's health. Mine are in the living room and provide hours of fantastic entertainment!

Size of Cage. Over the years, I think rescues and others with an interest in animal welfare have realised that guineas and rabbits need far more space than thought in the past. When I got my first two in 1998, I kept them in a plastic cage that was way too small. Now, mine are in one that's 1.3 m x 800 cm, but also has an extra floor. The point is, just because the cage you used 5 years ago was "good enough" for the pets you had then doesn't mean that it is "good enough" now (a bit like the cot I slept in probably wouldn't meet standards expected for babies today!)

I've never understood why anyone would use a wooden hutch for an animal that wees inside because before long, it rots through the base and you can't get the stench out, either. A plastic or coroplast floor is much more practical. I find it scandalous that pet shops still sell hutches that are far, far too small.

Sure, you can waltz into a pet shop, hand over a wad and walk out with any animal you like, any cage you want, any food you choose, no need for a background check, etc. The pet shop doesn't care because they just want to make a sale. If you use them for snake food, it's no odds so long as you've handed over the cash. Sadly, alot of pet shops see small animals as fairly "disposable" pets and also sadly, many buyers view them this way, too.

Rescues, on the other hand, know that the animals in their care have already experienced maltreatment and trauma and have a responsibility to do all they can to make sure the animal doesn't end up with a miserable life again. Most rescues in the UK have a "no kill" policy, so even if animals aren't adopted, they'll live out the rest of their lives in the safe and loving care of the shelter or probably a foster family. Sorry, but that is preferable to just handing them out willy nilly to people who stomp their feet and think they know better than the rescuers.

I would suggest giving more time and thought into it before getting guinea pigs. There is plenty of info and lots of helpful people here Guinea Pig Forum.

DBF I take your point about being open minded about the 'right' sort of dog.

I had always prefered big hairy, collie cross type 'proper' dogs. We took on my Nan's teeeeny little dog who was a PITA but we had her for years and years. I swore to keep away from small dogs forever more! Mad and small enough to escape through holes in the fence and too fond of chasing things

But my little Atticus has sold me on little dogs and now I cant imagine having a big, hair shedding, sofa hogging, slobbery 'proper' dog again

My animals tend to live for hundreds of years (fingers crossed) so I hope our terrier x Hero will be with us for some time yet (he is in his mid/late teens though).

I will warn you - I have realised that I am not having anymore human babies and I am the broodiest woman alive so the idea of a puppy is very appealing.

(At least I am honest!).

Now I see it the other way, MrsDV. A companion to dogs collie sized or bigger all my adult life I've developed a passion for the big and hairy.

But... but... as I get older and as I work with smaller dogs in rescue I'm beginning to see the appeal. I think that my next dog (rescued of course) will be a Staffie... for his or her benefit I will opt for the breed which needs help the most and hopefully set the example that not all SBTs are owned by baseball cap wearing yobs but can be and ARE loving family pets and for my benefit I shall have a dog which I can have sat on my lap without being totally incapacitated and unable to see over his shoulder.

You can't do that with either of my German Shepherds or my Labrador, that much I hold my hands up to!

I keep GPigs outdoors, in a huge hutch with a run, but have a smaller plastic/metal cage also. This means I can bring them into the house at night in winter & also if the weather is very cold. I wouldn't keep them outside when it is freezing - they are not as hardy as rabbits (our rabbits also get brought in when weather v bad however).
Could this be an option? Ours also have the run of a securely fenced garden most days.
If you really do want to adopt an unwanted GPig I would put a card in the window of a local newsagent offering a home. You'd be surprised how many people are keen to give away their pets. :(

A very good post KRICKRI.

We have (our 3rd) rescue Staffie, she is 13months and she is typical of her breed, she is loving and licky, tail wagging almost all the time, bouncy and energetic, adored by the kids and vice versa and I love her to bits! She came to us at just 4months, having already been abandoned by her owner as she was "not tough enough" She was just a baby!
Even though she was our 3rd Staff,< we lost our Harvey when he was 15, and Dudley when 16ish> at first the rescue place was reluctant to re-home her with us as we also had a JRT and cats, and our boys were only 10. They said Staffies were not good in homes with other animals and children under 12.! It took 2x50mile round trip visits to the shelter accompinied by kids and JRT before we were home checked and eventually allowed to take her home. She now sleeps in a big bed with one of our cats and Bobby the JRT, (we did provide seperate beds, but they were ignored) and at the moment is asleep with 2 other cats and Bob on our sofa.
Many people would have been put off by the trouble and expense incurred in adopting her, but i had fallen in love and persevered. There are a lot of abandoned Staffs and Staffx out there, as people thought they would give them the "hardman" image, and they didn't live up to those expectations, but why oh why do they make it so hard for us genuine Staffie fans to adopt one.

Krirkri, you're probably right, but the issue I have now with our rescue centre is that they won't rehome to us even though it's the vet's opinion that lack of company is damaging our remaining guinea.

They probably know more about GPs than I do. I don't think they know more than the vet (who is a small animal specialist, and ironically is the one the rescue recommended to us themselves).

Agree with KRICKRI
My guineas live indoors all year round, actually. As do my brothers' and my friends'.

Why take the risk leaving them outdoors during the cold spell - just get an indoor cage and when it is chilly bring them in. Don't understand why you're being so defiant about it when several people have advised that they have experienced gps dying in the cold.

Also, you cannot interact and really care for an animal that is shoved in a wooden hutch at the bottom of the garden. Pigs are very sociable animals and also like stimulation.

The reason that rescues have these requirements is to make sure that the animals are properly taken care of. OP why don't you just build a shed for them and get a bigger run / build an extension on yours? Then you know you're taking proper care of your pets. If you go out and buy some now you will know that you're not actually providing them with a good enough home. I understand that it's not nice to think that the guinea pigs you had before were not being looked after to the same high standards that are expected now, but that doesn't mean you have to stick with old practice.

It's the same with people who want dogs but work all day; the reason a rescue will not give you a dog is because you're not a suitable home for a dog!