to think the NCT should CRB check its volunteers?

[leicestershiregirl]

Just wanted to sound some mums out about this. Until last year I was a volunteer for the NCT and something that always bothered me about it was the fact that they don't CRB check their volunteers or require them to do safeguarding children training. This is in spite of the fact that volunteers are often in close proximity to children e.g. at mother and baby groups.

Comparable organisations e.g. Homestart, La Leche League and the Breastfeeding Network all require CRBs. Everybody working in a school or hospital requires one even if they don't have direct contact with students/patients. For my job with the NHS I also had to have safeguarding children training and we were told we have a duty of care to any children we come across, even if they are just visitors to the hospital.

This seems good and right to me, but when I brought it up with the NCT, first with other volunteers then with the Board of Trustees I was told NCT volunteers do not require CRB checks by law because they are never alone with children, they would be too expensive and they're not effective anyway because they can't tell you if somebody is going to commit a crime.

Am I alone in thinking this is absolutely crazy? Teaching assistants or Sure Start workers are never alone with children but they have to get checked, and rightly so - a school is not an appropriate place to work for somebody convicted of child abuse (and neither is an NCT mother and baby group). As for the expense, what is more important than child protection? And as for the argument they're not effective, that's just dumb.

Please tell me what you think.

Who are these mothers who can get drunk on a glass of wine? Is there a special trick to it?

They are not exactly free for volunteers whoneeds sleep. You either have to pay £300 to register with the CRB to carry out checks plus commit to a large number of checks per year or pay an umbrella body an admin fee of around £30 per check. Also as breastfeeding counsellors and antental teachers are paid for running classes they would not come under the volunteer banner so would be charged the price of an enhanced check on top of those fees.

A lot of organisations that CRB check volunteers are actually doing so illegally. Our area now has a short form for organisations to complete to check that a CRB is actually required. CRB's are supposed to be for people working with children or vulnerable adults and if the parent is looking after the child, CRB's of other adults present/advising, etc are not required.

I agree with another poster that child protection training/briefing is far more important.

CRB's often stop people volunteering off the cuff when they are used disproportionately e.g. parent offering on the day to help out with preparing and giving out snacks at a parent and toddler group.

Organisations often insist on CRB's as a way of covering themselves. But in reality it is often about protecting the reputation of an organisation rather than a realistic way of protecting children.

CRB's also stop people volunteering who have criminal convictions that they fear would stop them passing a CRB check - when in fact it wouldn't. CRB checks are not interested for example in whether you shoplifted in the past, but people can often be unwilling to put themselves in the possible position of being turned down after a CRB check.

This is a real issue for some people and in particular potential male volunteers. Approximately one third of men have some criminal past - usually minor things as a teenager or young man such as shop lifting, drunk and disorderly.

And as a worker in a small charity that works with hundreds of volunteers - CRB checks of volunteers don't cost - but there is a registration and admin fee. They also take time to do. One or two people have to be the approved person who checks the CRB form, the forms of identification required and have to complete a form themselves before sending it off.

CRB checks can take ages if you have moved around a lot between areas with different police forces (as many young people have) or if you have lived abroad. In these circumstances CRB checks can take 6-9 months and would stop all but the most committed volunteer.

cory - if you're on antidepressants particularly older ones, then one glass of wine can make you drunk. I'm a very cheap date in the winter... So fear of being accused of drunkenness especially if already down and depressed could well make someone anxious.

Added to my previous rant about the pointlessness of CRB checks - I had one done less than 6 months ago to work with sixthformers. I'm about to start working with a different group of sixthformers, so the charity I'm doing it through say I need to do it all again! They asked if I could travel an hour to their head office to do it. I think I'll reply and say they can fill it in themselves and when I see their worker I'll show them the same passport and bills and sign it!
They must be wasting almost the entire salary of one of their 5 paid workers on bloody CRB checks.

Even if I'd been abusing children full time since my last check, what's the chances of anyone having found out yet, really?

Following on from lesleys posts,
I think the whole CRB thing is particularly off-putting to men (if my DH is anything to go by ) He's a lovely man, especially as a great father, he just hates paperwork. So for example he didn't volunteer with DS's beaver (like cubs) group as a CRB check was required, so I did the parental volunteer sessions there. I think that's a shame as young boys need a variety of good adult role models - especially where primary schools are such a female preserve. Fortunately as DH wasn't going to be alone with the children the wise "Arkela"
let DH come in and share his hobby with the boys through a variety of (supervised) activities.
As I see it there is a definite cost to the CRB culture, and not only the considerable £££ involved.

Now, I have read this thread with interest.
I have been involved with Leicester NCT for nearly 10 years now.
I have also trained with NCT as a Breastfeeding counsellor, and practise in Leicester.
I work at the local bumps and babies group, help at NN sales and..dum..dum...dum.... I visit mums who are having trouble with their babies, in their own home and even in my own home... where my daughter is often playing... should I CRB the mums I am supporting I wonder?
I trained VERY HARD for a long time to do this role, there are certain criteria I had to meet to get started with this training, it did not include a CRB.
When I am supporting mums they are always there, I am never alone with their baby. I am aware of the vulnerablility of the women in these situations, but never do I feel that either they or I are in any danger.

I cannot understand how having a CRB would protect anyone, the people(generally only the specialist workers, ANT's PNL's and BFC's) who may be in touch with vulnerable women/children could perhaps have some formal child protection training, although most of us..(hmmm all in my branch) have already done this kind of training in our other roles. so NCT funding it would be repeating training we have already done, what a waste of money and time.

I feel very strongly that the OP has some underlying issues with the charity, I am not in any way brainwashed that they can do no wrong, By a VERY long chalk!!!
But I do feel that we do an overwhelming amount of good which should not get lost in stupid paper work (Any more than it already is!)

CRBs are often discredited these days and are over used in cases they are not needed (I hold about 4, and as a school governor I feel it's stupid!)

I am very pleased to see that most people view this with common sense.

yes they should have CRB checks cos they actually could be left alone with kids. ie) breast feeding NCT adviser could pop round and mum could leave room to go to loo/make tea/get a nappy change.

NCT advisers visit people much like any other agency - and they are all CRB checked.