to think this was not an ok thing to say to a child?

[winnybella]

Just a little rant, sorry. Quick background: separated from EA and on a couple of occasions violent ex few years ago, we have a DS (9), we split care 50/50 as we live very close to each other and he's a decent father. I have since met DP and we have DD(2).

So, picked up DS from school today. He said that he mentioned to his father that we (i.e. DS, DP, DD and I) might go to my mum's country house for Christmas and that we might take a horsecart across the lake there (probably not, it was just someone said and DS heard, the lake does freeze and ice is very thick as temp regularly 20 degrees below zero there, but still wouldn't risk it).

Ex said to him ' If anything happened to you, I would kill your mother and her DP, strangle her DD and then kill myself'.

Now, I see that he would feel the urge to murder me should I cause harm to DS because of my stupidity, but surely it's not something you say to a child? I said to DS' Oh, he was just joking', and he said ' No, he was serious'.

I don't know, maybe it's not a big deal, but I try to be civil all the time for the DS's sake and every month or so something comes up that makes me question his sanity.

I mean, 'Strangle DD'???WTF? How does that even cross your lips?

[winnybella]

We're talking it over with DP now, MrsBradley. DP wants to go and tell him that this needs to stop. Obviously I don't think it's a great idea. OTOH ex is a coward so he might think twice next time. DP is very posh and calm and contained but I'm afraid he might lose it when faced with ex (normally they are civil to each other).

Ex denied saying what he said, it wasn't a direct threat (i.e. I will kill them now)-well, it was a threat, but a conditional one and not meant to be heard by us.

I was thinking about going to see a family law solicitor and possibly a some sort of Social Services equivalent (we're in France). See what can be done in terms of getting residence as DS has been in the week here/week there schedule for the last five years and ex, as vile as he is, is not an alcoholic, doesn't beat DS, sends him to school in clean clothes, takes him on holidays etc etc- what would be needed to for court to agree that he lives with us permanently. Is a few vile text messages and what DS says that ex said enough?

[AnneWiddecomesArse]

IMO. You should take this as a threat.
And you stand like your feet are in ice. (no pun)
I wouldn't allow further contact.

[FreudianSlipper]

agree with others get some legal advice

that is abuse and he is using his son as a qay to still emotionally abuse you

[winnybella]

ChippingIn-who knows? Of course we read about men killing their children because they want to get back at their wives/exes. No, I don't think he is a threat at the moment to DS in those terms, no. If I went to court? Who knows.

Agree, Inertia. Totally fucking demented.

[winnybella]

Freudian-yes. But I don't think he meant that to get back to me, I really don't.

I will get legal advice as per my post up thread.

I do have to say that all these stories about men killing the children because of break up of their marriage etc are scaring me a bit. It's not a case here, as we have been separated for over 5 years...but I don't know...

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

You've got the measure of the man and I suspect that he's not much more than 'all mouth and no trousers' in common parlance.

Sending emails about a contentious subject has given him warning and opportunity to go into damage limitation mode.

I suggest you don't refer to this matter again through the net; send another message to firm up a date for the shopping trip. Play it relaxed while you're traipsing through shops, raise the matter over a coffee where you can observe his body language. Make it clear that what he said to ds is inappropriate and unacceptable and that he must reassure his son that he didn't mean what he said.

You haven't revealed whether your ds seemed distressed by what his df told him. In any event, you should reassure him as best you can and tell him that sometimes people say things without thinking and they sometimes say things that they'll never actually do, but of course nothing is going to happen to ds and no way is his df ever going to hurt you or dp or dd.

[winnybella]

izzy- I think he is very cocky and likes to control his environment/others. While we were together he was vile, emotionally abusive and on two occasions violent (pulled my hair really hard once, choked me on other). Well, choked for about few seconds, from the back iyswim. We've been together for 7 years (first boyfriend )

Why I never called police then, I don't know. I left soon after, got a job, got a flat. Thought 50/50 care would be good as they both love each other very much and he was never vile to DS (except being a shitty father for treating me like crap in front of him).

If not for those two incidents I would also say he is all talk and no action. Cocky, selfish, controlling, but not dangerous.

[winnybella]

And the thing is that there is no arguing with him. I can say whatever I think needs t be said, I can say it calmly, I can argue the case, he'll always either agree and then ignore or disagree by twisting what I said etc.

I think I will seek legal opinion just to know where we stand. DP thought that DS should see a psychologist (because he has behavioural problems, not severe, but enough to possibly hinder him and others in the future) and see whether the psy has anything to say about the influence his father has on him (but I think that we wouldn't be told anything about that as there's the matter of confidentiality?).

And I think izzy's advice is good, just to let him know that we know what he said and that it's not acceptable.

Thank you everyone very much.

[GeorgeClooneysWife]

I would be packing my bags and moving to China, I'm afraid. What an awful, awful thing to say to a child.

I hope your DS is okay x

[racingheart]

It's a very disturbing thing to say to a child. You say he cares well for your son, but your son is upset by this. he told you about it and seemed convinced his dad meant it. How does he feel about being on the receiving end of such a rant? Not safe, I bet.
Get advice and tell him if he speaks like that again to upset your son you will take action. Make sure he knows you mean it. He sounds vile.

[GypsyMoth]

My ex once threatened to kill himself and take the kids with him ( not long after the case where the dad gassed himself and his little boys, making the eldest call his mum to say goodbye)

He also made a few half hearted attempts himself. As well as many threats

When we split and I denied access, cafcass were involved and really listened hard to the suicide bit. It became a major concern for them.

He ended up with zero contact. So a throwaway comment can be
taken very seriously

[Inertia]

I think you're wise to seek legal advice, even if just to get this incident recorded. Also, the psychologist sounds like a good idea - horrible as it is to think about, your ex might have been drip feeding stuff like this to your ds for years. You might want to consider whether th is actually some kind of tipping point for your DS , as this is something he recognises as clearly wrong, and needs your help ( or the help of a psychologist) to deal with. It's a terrifying thing for a child to process. Good luck, hope you are able to resolve this .

[MalibuStac]

Just read over your thread and what he has said regardless of whether you think its a stupid comment made in the heat of the moment is damaging to your ds. Your son is 9 how scared do you think he feels knowing his dad could potentially hurt you, his step dad and sister? Also a concern for me is now you have confronted him about what he's said will he give ds into trouble for telling you? In future will he ensure ds hides what goes on in his house? How will ds feel about being called a liar by his dad?

Your dps suggestion of a psychologist may be a good idea. Not sure of the law in france but if a psychologist here deemed a situation detrimental to a child they would inform the parents.

I understand that having split care with ex has been going on for a long time but that's doesn't mean its still the right option for ds especially if your noticing behaviour problems.

Also agree with the other s that speaking to the police even if its to record this information would stand you in good stead. I hope you get the best outcome for your family.

[blackeyedsusan]

seek legal advice with a dv specialist.

[winnybella]

Thank you all.

DP will contact a lawyer who won a residency case for his friend (a man) recently and we'll schedule an appointment just to see what kind of case we've got.

I will sort out the psychologist and will warn ex that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable (all good that it will do ).

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

No pun intended, but you will be on thin ice in terms of stopping or restricting access on the basis of the evidence you have to date particularly as it seems that ds would be distressed if he is unable to see his df on a regular basis.

What you don't want to do is to play into your ex's hands by giving him further cause to work up more irrational anger against you that may spill over into his relationship with ds.

This doesn't mean that you roll over for him, but it does mean keeping a watching brief and chronicling every inappropriate statement he makes or act he commits no matter how trivial. It also means you should ensure that he is unaware of any consultation you have with a lawyer.

If you seek pyschological evaluation for ds, I would suggest you do so on the primary basis of the impact his behaviour is having on his education and on his relationships with others, with the secondary issue being his behaviour at home (if applicable).

If you privately commission a psych. evaluation for ds, as he is under age confidentiality doesn't apply as such and you will be given a full report of probable cause, effect, and recommendations. However, please check with a lawyer as to whether your ex is legally entitled to see any report - it would seem that you were not married and that may significantly impact on his parental rights in law.

I would suggest that you don't involve any French equivalent of social services at this point as, inevitably, they will wish to make contact with your ex and he sounds capable of twisting whatever anyone says and using it fuel his anger at you, or anyone else for that matter.

You know the man and I have no doubt that your opinion is correct; he is Cocky, selfish, controlling, but not dangerous and I hope you will not needlessly suffer nightmares over some of the more extreme tales you've been told here as I'm sure that you and dp are more than a match for him - and I also have no doubt that he knows it.

[TheOriginalFAB]

I don't know why you are focussing on the fact that you weren't meant to know he had said that. He said to your son how his father would murder people he loved if X happened. That has got to have done something to your son and he now has a pressure on him. You really need to take this seriously. Not all abuse leaves visable bruises..

[gapants]

If not for those two incidents I would also say he is all talk and no action. Cocky, selfish, controlling, but not dangerous

That statement there op makes me think that you have your blinkers on...he is a violent person, and he is capable of saying and acting out violent things. Can you not see that? It takes one dreadful action to damage a kids life forever.

The email exchange you had was a bust. I am so glad that you are going to get legal advice. Try not to make excuses for him when you meet the solicitor like you have been here.

Be strong and start to see him for what he is. He does not sound like a good parent. All the clean clothes and nice holidays don't mean shit when you tell your children you are going to murder their mum.

[MrsBradleyCooper]

Sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees when you have known someone for a long time.

DH's ex girlfriend is manipulative, accusatory, constantly blackmails and makes threats etc. She has also threatened to kill herself on a number of occasions. Everyone around DH can see that she is behaving appallingly, except him. He does get annoyed with her, but he defends her by saying, "Well she did say please", "Well she is right in a way" or "She has had a really hard upbringing" (She hasn't-her mum and dad split up-that's it). Personally I think this is because he spent so many years with her that her behaviour is no longer extraordinary to him. Is that perhaps the case here too?

I just find it it very bizarre and worrying that he was so specific about who he would hypothetically kill, and by what method.

I would be going off my rocker if anyone made a statement like that about my toddler.

[Mitmoo]

OP you need some independent advise as I thing your judgement regarding your son is way way way off. You don't ever take children on frozen rivers, kids die that way. I'm not surprised your ex was horrified to hear that you'd even think about endangering your child and presenting it to him as a "treat". Madness.

Next. You say your ex has a history of violence, acts like a "lunatic" before this incident, then why the hell are you allowing shared contact? Anyone with a history of violence in a domestic situation doesn't and shouldn't get shared care IMHO. What are you thinking? I'd be looking at supervised contact never mind shared care.

Now he's talking to your son about strangling his sister albeit in a hypothetical situation, that is emotional abuse even if he does nothing else.
He is bang out of order, this is the stuff of nightmares for children.

You need to review what you present to your child as safe activities, if he went to the park, saw the local lake frozen over and went to skate on it because mum says it would be fun and went under, you can't undo that. Tell him it is dangerous because it is, if he wants to skate take him to a rink.

Review how much contact your ex should be getting and in what circumstances supervised, daytime only and change it. If you do decide shared care can't continue which would have been over my dead body in the first place then you stop it and let him take you to court.

But you've set a precedent by allowing shared care and you will have a hard time getting believed by a court that you allowed this when there has been a history of violence.

Is he on the birth certificate because if he is he already has Joint Parental Responsibility and is an equal parent in every sense of the word.

You really need some professional advice and urgently.

[MrsBradleyCooper]

He will only have parental responsibility if they were married, if the child was born prior to 2002.

[post]

Threatening to kill a child's mother and sister isn't caring for him, it's abuse. If you're finding I third to move forward with this and feel strong, please find some rl support so that you can.

[post]

• it hard

[Mitmoo]

OP Am I reading this right? He tried to choke you in front of your son and then threatens to strangle your son's sibling. Even if your son didnt see that incident he is capable of violence and choking you then threatening your child.

Wakey wakey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am really trying not to be harsh here but that won't help your child.

Your son will end up a complete emotional wreck, take him to a pscyhologist or a counsellor and have him professionally assessed. If it is the same as this country then you will see a copy of the report no matter what it says.

[winnybella]

Mitmoo- I haven't planned to let DS go on the horsecart ride across the frozen lake. As I have said in my OP, it was something someone mentioned while we were on holidays there. FIY though, walking on a lake that freezes 50cm+ in Polish winter is not the same as a dog walker going on ice in an English park and falling through.