to think this was not an ok thing to say to a child?

[winnybella]

Just a little rant, sorry. Quick background: separated from EA and on a couple of occasions violent ex few years ago, we have a DS (9), we split care 50/50 as we live very close to each other and he's a decent father. I have since met DP and we have DD(2).

So, picked up DS from school today. He said that he mentioned to his father that we (i.e. DS, DP, DD and I) might go to my mum's country house for Christmas and that we might take a horsecart across the lake there (probably not, it was just someone said and DS heard, the lake does freeze and ice is very thick as temp regularly 20 degrees below zero there, but still wouldn't risk it).

Ex said to him ' If anything happened to you, I would kill your mother and her DP, strangle her DD and then kill myself'.

Now, I see that he would feel the urge to murder me should I cause harm to DS because of my stupidity, but surely it's not something you say to a child? I said to DS' Oh, he was just joking', and he said ' No, he was serious'.

I don't know, maybe it's not a big deal, but I try to be civil all the time for the DS's sake and every month or so something comes up that makes me question his sanity.

I mean, 'Strangle DD'???WTF? How does that even cross your lips?

[grumblinalong]

You need to look at this from your poor DS's POV. His dad has threatened his mum & sister, any child would be scared at anyone doing this. My ex is a complete twunt and dislikes me intensely but he would NEVER say this to our DS.

I wouldn't send an email or involve anyone else at this stage but I would phone him & tell him it is completely inappropriate for his to say this to his son, who is after all only 9 years old. If he becomes abusive/defensive in response I would then act further. Does your DP know about this? Can't imagine he is happy about your ex threatening his partner & daughter...

[winnybella]

Waiting for DP to arrive.

Thanks all for your input.

[Pinot]

Blimey winny that makes me feel a bit sick tbh. Hope you're OK.

[Nowtspecial]

I agree with musieB tbh, unless he has history or there is further lunacy there is no way I'd be involving external agencies. He sounds like an unthinking
arsehole to me.

[MorelliOrRanger]

Why would someone say that to a 9 year old, that's just sick

[AssetRichIncomePoor]

"Oh, Jesus. I was hoping people would say "Oh, he just got scared that you would risk DS's life like that, it was only a figure of speech etc etc'."

That is precisely what I was going to say. Though I do think it's very near the knuckle. But viewed from the other side ... I think that if I thought DH were going to take our children anywhere near ice, I might well say something stupid too.

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

IMO this matter should be looked in context rather than being seen as a specific threat to kill.

The OP says that some years back her ex was violent on a couple of occasions - we do not know what form that violence took, but as we know that the OP has a 2 year old dc with her new partner we can assume that any violence took place some considerable time ago.

The OP is now on good/friendly terms with her ex and the OP's ds is the subject of shared care - 50% with his df and 50% with his dm.

During the course of ds's latest stay with his df, he spoke of going to the country for Christmas and the possibility of a horsecart ride across a frozen lake.

Obviously any such ride is fraught with danger and the ex responded to this information by saying ' If anything happened to you, I would kill your mother and her DP, strangle her DD and then kill myself'.

From this, I'm not getting the impression that the ex is plotting serial murder or that he poses any risk to the OP unless something untoward happens to his ds while in the OP's care.

While it is an extremely inappropriate statement to make to a child, I suspect that this was ex's clumsy way of letting his ds know how much he loves him. how central to his life his ds is, and how he wouldn't want to go on living without him.

It's the type of thought many of us have had when entrusting our dc to the care of others but, in voicing that thought, it doesn't mean that we would ever act on it.

You're absolutely right in saying that it is not the type of statement should have been made to your ds, OP, but it sounds as if you have established a harmonious relationship with your ex. I therefore suggest that, when you go shopping together tomorrow or in the next few days, you ask him why he found it necessary to say these words to your ds.

Whatever his explanation, simply say that this is not something that your ds should hear and you trust that he will attempt to redress any damage done by assuring ds that (no matter what his private thoughts) he'd never act in such a way as to physically hurt your or dp or dd, and get his promise to refrain from making any similar statement in future.

AFTER you've had this conversation, you'll be better placed to know whether you need to involve or alert the law in some form or other. My guess is that you won't.

[mamas12]

Well I would get advice first
You say you chat to him so how do you think you telling him that that was an unaccepatble thing to say to a child would go down?

[mamas12]

Does your son feel threatened or frightened by that statement?

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

I also suggest that you use this as an opportunity to let your ds know that it's okay to have bad or nasty thoughts about other people but it's not okay to act on them.

Above all, I urge you not to let this matter get out of proportion to an extent that it ruins the relationship that you've been able to establish with your ex.

[RitaMorgan]

Hmm... I can possibly understand saying in anger "if anything happened to you I'd kill your mother" - but this was so specific and detailed and included not only killing a 2 year old but how he would do it. And all said to a 9 year old!

That is not the kind of thing a sane and rational person would say - I would be concerned, not necessarily that he would carry out that threat, but that he is not a stable person and has been having those kinds of thoughts towards the OP and her family.

[Greensleeves]

fgs of course it is totally inappropriate, and weird

I agree with G1nger

[ruletheworld]

You must take this seriously. You MUST.

I don't want to frighten you but when I was in 6th form my best friend's stepdad who was a very meek guy who had retired and wanted to become a postman repeatedly threatened to kill himself, and others in the family.

He killed her 6 year old sister one day I know that's the last thing you want to hear but there were so many regrets over not listening and giving him second chances.

If this guy can say this to a child he's already blown it as a parent. Don't give him any more chances.

[LetThereBeRock]

I agree that you must take this seriously. He has a history of violence,you say that he reguarly gives you cause to question his sanity and this was a very detailed and specific threat.

Don't send an e-mail. Go to the police and your solicitor asap.

Perhaps he wasn't serious,but considering the background I'd take this very seriously.

[takethisonehereforastart]

That's weird and really scary. Especially because he's said a similar thing before.

It's not even like he said "if anyone hurt you I would kill them" or "I'd die if anything happened to you" which still wouldn't be ideal things to say to child. He went to the extremes of "I'd kill your mother and your step father and strangle your two year old sister before killing myself" and that is rather a lot of (insane) detail for anyone.

He's obviously scared your son enough for him to tell you. The papers are full of stories of women who have been harmed or killed by crazy exes that they didn't take seriously or thought they could handle. They are full of stories of murdered children because one parent still wants to control or hurt the other. They are full of stories of women who tried to do the right thing by the wrong man, of women who thought the threat wouldn't be taken seriously, who reported the threat but were let down.

This is one of those times where you have to protect your children. You have to take this seriously because it's not something a normal person would say. It wasn't said in the heat of the moment. It wasn't said because anything bad had happened.

And it seems bloody well thought out too. You don't throw in "strangle" especially for a two year old child unless you've sat and planned it in your mind. He sounds like there is something really wrong, and even if he doesn't seem obviously depressed or obviously violent or whatever, these things he has said are still signs that something is badly wrong.

[winnybella]

Right, DP's here and we're talking it over.

I have just sent an email asking whether he said what he said. Without any anger, just DS told me that you said xyz. Did you?.

I think that ex is a narcisstic yet full of complexes loser. I think he is a bit unstable, but that is always made up for by his selfishness. He wouldn't want to fuck his life up iyswim. But of course, it's hard to really know someone, isn't it?

Oh, just got an email back saying he did not get what he was saying and that he should concentrate more on what is being said to him

Thing is, it was way to detailed for DS to make up and I've known ex to say similar crap before (well, not to DS, but to me).

[TheOriginalFAB]

But what he has said is not stupid. It was vile.

[winnybella]

Agree, Fab.

So I sent an email back asking whether DS has made up the 'strangle DD' bit.

I guess he's now thinking what to answer. And he has to answer something because he has asked me to keep DS longer this week so he can go to some exhibition So now it's between admitting that hehas, in fact, said that or saying that DS has lied.

Let's see.

[winnybella]

So he answered back saying that he said that if DS died in the lake the parents would have no choice but to kill themselves

I doubt that was what he really said. I doubt DS took the strangling bit out of thin air.

Wanker

[Inertia]

So the previously abusive, violent ex didn't admit in writing to having threatened to murder 3 people including a baby.

There's a surprise.

[MrsBradleyCooper]

So what are you going to do now?

[winnybella]

I know, Inertia, I know, but he has sent me in a past some pretty vile texts etc and so I thought he very well might admit to it and then go on to accuse me of being a horrible mother for even considering the ride across the lake etc etc.

[ChippingIn]

I'm not sure what you were hoping to get out of an email exchange to be honest. He was hardly going to say 'Yes, I said that', especially in writing, was he

You know him - you know whether he's actually any physical threat to DS at all or not.

However, I wouldn't want anyone who would say things like this to my child to have such a huge influence on him, which he does with your current arrangement. He's going to be giving your DS all kinds of weird ideas about how people think, behave, act etc. No way would I allow it.

[ChippingIn]

Or maybe he was - he does sound like a complete idiot.

[Inertia]

Winny, did you ever take the texts to the police?

Obviously you know him and I don't, but he sounds like a genuinely scary man. Even saying that the parents would have to kill themselves is not a rational response. The rational response would have been to reassure your son about how neither he nor you would put your son in danger - not voice revenge attack plans or outline further traumas to be visited on your son.