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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

childminder has moved house

123 replies

stormers · 04/09/2011 16:52

Our childminder recently moved five miles away while we were on holiday. When we returned, she confirmed her new address by text. We put it in writing that we had to find new arrangements, due to the distance to the new house. We have no objection using her at her old address which is close, and on the contract we signed and agreed to.
The NCMA contract states that if we terminate we must pay 4 weeks notice. However, it is because she has moved, we have not seen the new house. Do we have to pay 4 weeks notice as a result of her moving? Please advise.

OP posts:
fedupofnamechanging · 04/09/2011 19:32

I would say that it was necessary to end the contract straight away because she moved and therefore she has ended the contract and owes you money.

Claw3 · 04/09/2011 19:45

Doesnt the 4 week notice work both ways?

ChippingIn · 04/09/2011 19:50

No way should you pay her.

She can try to get the money out of you - but she wont succeed.

What are you going to do in the meantime?

Cadsuane · 04/09/2011 19:57

Look up Frustration of contract.
She has changed her circumstances making it imposible to use her, thus breaking the contract.

Original poster
stormers · 04/09/2011 20:10

chipping in - after a lot of sleepless nights, fear, and tearing our hair out we are desperately making other arrangments.
thanks cadsuane - for this advice.

OP posts:
givemushypeasachance · 04/09/2011 20:24

No real advice on the contractual points, but just thought I'd post to clarify that Ofsted can't give you advice on contractual matters - they're the childcare regulator, they can't take sides or give parents legal advice. Childminders definitely have to tell Ofsted that they're moving since they're registered to care from the address on their certificate of registration - she'd need to get a new certificate sent out before she could start minding there.

Off topic slightly I'm always dubious about the whole letting the childminder risk assess the property themself thing since when someone starts up their house will be inspected by Ofsted - supposedly the childminder should be trusted to judge for themselves whether it's safe, but I'd quite frankly prefer if an inspector popped around just to double check that there's no unconvered ponds, non-safety glass doors and wobbly bannisters, just to be sure. Plenty of registered childminders still get things picked up on their inspections with things like building work being carried out in the garden right where toddlers are playing amongst the cement powder and brick, so you never know.

CurrySpice · 04/09/2011 20:27

Oh lord what an absolute nightmare for you! I wish you luck in finding a new CM

I don't know what the legal situation is but morally I would say she hasn't got a leg to stand on. I am shocked at her cheek tbh Shock

WhoWhoWhoWho · 04/09/2011 20:35

I highly doubt she has moved house and had Ofsted round to inspect it, received her new registration certificate at the new address and renewed her public liability insurance with the new address details n the policy. As she hasn't done this and hasn't given you notice in writing of the fact she was moving 5 miles away I would be laughing at her request for 4 weeks pay! (I saw this as a former childminder). She is being very unprofessional and has broken the contract herself.

Call NCMA in the morning to reassure yourself but honestly you do not need to be paying her 4 weeks pay!

Original poster
stormers · 04/09/2011 20:38

we rang NCMA on Friday and they wont speak to parents, only CM, we rang the early years dept and they werent sure as contract between CM and parent, and above it states that Ofsted dont provide legal advice. so we will go to a lawyer in the morning not sure how much that will cost.

OP posts:
ShoutyHamster · 04/09/2011 20:46

Don't go to a lawyer!!!

There is NO NEED - contact her, point out that as far as you are concerned she has broken the contract, as she has effectively made it impossible for her to use you, and has failed to give you notice of her change in circumstances. Also point out that you would be interested to know whether her new property has been certified - if not, she cannot childmind for the period she is attempting to charge you for anyway!

Mention to her that you are taking legal advice on whether you have a claim against her.

I would bet you never hear from her again. She is trying it on - for goodness' sake don't pay out money to a lawyer to find that out.

fedupofnamechanging · 04/09/2011 20:50

I would hold off on the lawyer for now - it will just cost you money. I'd be inclined to tell her that as far as you are concerned she broke the contract by moving and not giving you proper written notice. If she had told you, then you would have been able to give her written notice, while she was still at the old address.

You could find out from the early years dept or oftsted, whether she has been registered to work at this new address. If not, then she can say what she wants but she isn't able to legally child mind, so cannot look after your child.

I think she is relying on you being scared of confrontation and legal stuff and is chancing that you'll pay up. If you let her know that you will not be doing that, the onus is on her to pay for legal advice and pursue it. I doubt very much if she will, because it will likely cost her more than she would earn.

fedupofnamechanging · 04/09/2011 20:51

X posted with shouty, but she said it better!

ChippingIn · 04/09/2011 20:52

Don't go to a lawyer FGS that's sleep deprivation madness talking!

Just don't pay her. The worst that will happen is she will take you to the small claims court where you will easily be able to prove that she broke the contract.

Put it behind you and sort out your new arrangement!! Do not waste money on a lawyer.

Original poster
stormers · 04/09/2011 20:52

thanks for all this advice, + hopefully we can now sleep at night!

OP posts:
Rollergirl1 · 04/09/2011 20:59

contract states 'if it is necessary to end agreement straight away then payment in lieu' must be given, which is what she is holding us against

This sounds like it is aimed more at if the parent ends the agreement suddenly. As others say just don't pay her. And definitely don't go to a solicitor at this point. I reckon she's just trying her luck to be honest. Does she look after other children? If so what do the other parents think about it?

hayleysd · 04/09/2011 21:02

Different childminders use different contracts, if she is an ncma member she has to use ncma ones to be covered by them if anything happens and she will get free legal advice and if they think she is in the right (am not sure to be honest if she is and she could quite easily have everything in place to work from her new house as ofsted are quite on the ball at the moment), they would pursue you for the money so I would be tempted to just not pay and see if anything comes of it

Original poster
stormers · 04/09/2011 21:05

thanks for confirming our fears, yes it is ncma contract. besides the good advice we are getting here. are there any suggestions of where we can go to for free legal advice?seems contract ifo CM.

OP posts:
banana87 · 04/09/2011 21:05

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been answered.

You say she didn't know if she would get the house. How long were you on holiday for? A month? I should think even if shes renting she would know at least that far in advance that she was moving. Makes no sense.

fedupofnamechanging · 04/09/2011 21:09

This does sound as if she's known for some time that she would be moving and has kept it from you, in the hope that you will accept it as a done deal. Unless you were away for over a month, I'd imagine it takes time to organise a move, give notice to current landlords etc. She is pulling a fast one here. She ought to have told you as soon as she knew.

You could ask on the legal section of MN, or make an appt with the CAB.

Original poster
stormers · 04/09/2011 21:12

we were away for about a month, before we left CM didnt know if she would get house or when, we didnt know new address, we told her we would have to look elsewere. The address was confirmed by text when we returned end of august, then we confirmed in writing we couldnt travel that far.then we were asked to pay for sept.

OP posts:
Cadsuane · 04/09/2011 21:16

Phone the ACAS helpline. They will give you free advice, they are there to give advice on employment law. This is the kind of thing they deal with every day.

banana87 · 04/09/2011 21:18

Did she buy or rent? I agree with karma, she's pulling a fast one. She HAD to have known at least 2 weeks before she actually moved, which is when the text should have been sent.

You won't need a solicitor if she does decide to pursue it as it will go to small claims court anyway.

fedupofnamechanging · 04/09/2011 21:19

The ncma say that notice has to be given in writing, not via text or social networking sites. Given that she has notified you by text, she has not officially informed you that she has moved.

ballstoit · 04/09/2011 21:20

Is she still able to collect your DC from school? Surely that's a part of the contract?

As far as I'm concerned, she should have given notice as soon as she knew she was moving, so even if it was all sorted very quickly, you'd have known soon enough to make a dent in the 4 weeks notice period. If she had, it wouldnt have been 'necessary to give immediate notice', in effect she removed your opportunity to give 4 weeks notice by failing to tell you that she was moving. I would assume if she took you to a small claims court she'd have to prove she was unable to give you more notice.

Do you have legal cover on your home insurance, mine has a free legal advice helpline with it. Alternatively, make an appointment with Citizens Advice or your local Law Centre.

TastyMuffins · 04/09/2011 21:21

I totally sympathise with you. I had a childminder who moved and was shocked by how this was presented to me. When I gave the childminder notice that I intended to end our contract because the location was not convenient she surprised me by telling me she was moving in two weeks and would it be easier for me. At that stage she had not even found the new house but I was horrified that she had known she was moving and had not bothered to mention it. I can only assume she intended to spring it on me a few days before the move as that is when she actually knew the address.

I do not know how a childminder can expect a parent to agree to continue the care without having even seen the place they will be caring for the child in. As no one would take on a childminder they have interviewed outside of their home without seeing it, I can't see how it could possibly be acceptable. Surely she should have to give you 4 weeks notice of her intention to move. IMO she is the one terminating the contract especially as you have said the location didn't suit.

I continued me contract for my 4 weeks notice but was not happy with the new location which we had for the last two weeks. TBH I didn't actually like the childminder and her standard of care was not up to what she promised so location was only one of the points I wasn't happy with. When she gave the new address I confirmed that the location was not more convenient but she did insist I had to continue the notice period, she even called in sick on the last couple of days too!