granny again

[Mamateur]

I put this in teenagers but I'm reposting it here because DP and I will be talking to granny in a minute and I really do want to know if I'm on the right track.

I've posted before about our situation. We've taken over care of DN (DP's son) who has been brought up by his granny after both his parents died when he was a baby. Granny is easily manipulated by DN and constantly interferes in our relationship, creating a sort of triangle which is very irritating.

DN is with granny for a few days at the moment and comes back to start term next week. He has a target setting day which is for children and parents to attend. He has got granny to ring DP today to say he doesn't want us both to go as it would be "too overwhelming" so he just wants to go with DP. This is not surprising, he grew up with DP and I'm just a nag . Our relationship is progressing ok, but we have ups and downs.

DN is a bit off me at the moment, due to some well-deserved but very fairly given tellings off. He has been with granny on and off all holiday and comes back being very rude, refusing to do the usual stuff like putting his plate in the dishwasher, saying thank you.

I am responsible for his homework and all dealings with the school. It's me they call.

I understand that he doesn't want me to go, and that he loves DP much more than me, but I can't have him telling granny telling us what to do.

DP has called her back and left a message to call us. He agreed over the phone without thinking but is of the same mind as me.

I don't know whether to leave it for this time with firm boundaries for this stuff in the future or stand my ground.

HH here you go read it and weep!

We're tried hard to get him to do stuff - he refuses point blank. He's not a joiner, apparently.

The outcome of the watch thread is that DN told us what happened and I 95% believe him (he said his phone was in a very deep pocket of his trackpants and they didn't find it).

We talked about what he should have done and made it very clear that the reason it happened was because he was out at 10pm wandering the streets of north london instead of being at home from 8.30 as required. He had the money for the watch taken out of his pocket money over three months and he's not allowed to wear it out or to school. I wrote a rude email to granny

FTR, granny is absolutely right to say that dn is special because ALL children are special, but that doesn't mean that special allowance should be made for him to a point where he does not have to observe reasonable rules and boundaries.

Given his age and the brief amount of time he has been in the care of the OP and her dp, it is entirely natural that his behaviour will regress after holidays with granny.

Although these stays give the OP a welcome break, she then has to work doubly hard to get him back on track which why I've suggested that his face to face contact with granny should be curtailed or supervised for the foreseeable future.

As he becomes more established/bonded with the OP/her dp, he'll begin to 'grow out of' granny's influence (and that's most probably a large part of her fears) but he's always going to know that, where he's concerned, she's a pushover.

He's come to his new family late in life and the OP is going to have to work hard to ensure that, in the not too distant future, he doesn't vote with his feet and go back to live with granny.

Achieving at school, gaining self-respect, building friendships with his peers, and engaging with the wider community, will serve to guard against that eventuality.

AHh i was wondering how on earth I missed a thread

Twas when I was half way up a welsh mountain.

did you ever get to the bottom of it? does he have a watch now?

i think the £5 limit is a fab idea, anything above this, has to be run past you and DP.

It's hard, of course it is, she is the only mother he knew! and she indulged him dreadfully.

HH have updated the watch thread above.

Izzy is spot-on, it's always much worse after his visits.

I'm hoping a few days of the school routine will have him back on the straight and narrow.

Annoyingly, she's bought him a bike (WTF!) which he wants to bring back but no helmet (she didn't think of this) so I've had to say no because he won't agree to wear one. Bad guy mamateur again.

My response at 15.54 crossed with yours, Mamateur.

The problem is that he's been thoroughly indulged by granny for the majority of his life to a point where he feels entitled to behave exactly as he wishes. Granny is continuing to faciltate a situation where he can whinge to her about every perceived ill in his life and know that he'll hear what he wants to hear.

Some children/people are not 'joiners' but I suspect that if he builds a friendship with a more adventurous peer, he'll want to put his toe into the water too.

Please don't lose sight of the fact that underneath the spoilt child is a child with low self-esteem who lacks confidence to engage with the wider world.

Unless granny can be slowly (or quickly) eased out of the equation, you're always going to be on a hiding to nothing and the best you can hope for is that dn gradually comes to realise that, although she professes to worship and adore him, she is not a positive force for good in his life.

The trick is going to be making his life with you more rewarding/interesting/satisfying than the narrow confines of his life with granny, but if he's staying over with her frequently it only serves to diminish any chance of him gaining a perspective by which he can make his own comparisons.

FWIW, you have my sympathy.

Perhaps you could arrange a day out for the 3 of you in the middle of the Oct half-term holiday to a theme park or similar? Experiencing an extreme ride or 2 could help the bonding process although, if you're anything like me, it'll only be your dp and dn who go on the really scary rides.

If you have something along these lines planned, you may be able to circumvent the inevitable plea for dn to spend part of the hols with granny, or at least curtail the length of the stay.

I suspect if you signed him up for a club, drove him there and dropped him off he would go.

This was my experience with severe low-confidence stroppyness from similar situation.

You would probably have to keep taking him until it was a very ingrained habit though.

I think you are right that the more we organise for him at home, the better. Unfortunately, we live in central london and don't have a car. He goes to the local school which has an ofsted outstanding and has cooperated massively but DN has sought out the naughtiest kids who also happen to all be from very unregulated homes. I had a thread about him getting kicked out of a sleepover at 11pm because the dad felt ill () and getting the bus home. There is also an issue that I would do things a bit differently with DP but guess what... he was brought up by the same woman!

This term I am going to be massively on his case about his schoolwork. I know he doesn't mind this. Hopefully he is now in top set and will have less room to muck about. There will also be total powercut from getting sent out of class (twice a week minimum last term).

I think I might meet with granny and say that I have to lay it on the line with her. If she were just my mil I would love her, but I am actually risking my whole family with this arrangement (DS is 2) so have to make things really clear. Then every time she breaks a rule I will tell her.

Mamateur - if you do decide to meet with Granny, make sure you take your DP with you as well. It must be a joint effort - she has to understand that you are a joint venture and that it is not just you vs. her and the only way to do that is for him to come too.

I think I would also have a family meeting including DN as well - because it think it would benefit him to know that you, your DP and Granny all know the score/rules/boundaries. It might make him less inclined to push the boundaries when he's with Granny, as he knows himself what they are - whereas if you're just relying on Granny following through, she probably won't.

I think we definitely need a family meeting with DN, set down some firm rules. The problem is granny will never enforce them when he's with her - last christmas I asked her to not give him any alcohol and DP asked her as well. She couldn't quite agree on the phone, but said she'd think about it. It turns out she did (DN told me, and confirmed he hadn't asked for it, and didn't even want it). She is very honest though, so perhaps if I actually extract promises from her she wouldn't break them - she knows I would find out from DN.