To think the NHS is bloody wonderful and that we're very, very lucky?

[ScaredyDog]

I know everyone will have had a bad experience (I know I have) but generally, I think we're so lucky.

I've been to one hospital today as an emergency and been referred elsewhere. I don't have to pay to see a doctor, the staff have been absolutely lovely (which I hope they will also be at the other hospital) and I was seen immediately. We even had a laugh about my ridiculously sized elephant foot :)

I know prescriptions can seem expensive, but really, that's the only bit we pay for upfront so to speak (and most people don't pay for their prescriptions, I'm told).

Hoping for another good experience at the next hospital anyway :) Yay for HCPs and the NHS.

london & stuck - this talk of reform is just cover for cuts and privatisation. As soon as 'any qualified provider' goes through, the NHS is over. Make no mistake, private health firms all over the world are drooling in anticipation of the profits. Companies are legally obliged to put share holders first, before patients.

"you only have to suggest insurance and people jump to all sorts of negative conclusions"

I guess because the most obvious user of an insurance based system is the US. And their system is abysmal!

I have friends with serious health problems who are getting no treatment at all, because they cannot afford it. :(

The other flaw with insurance is that surely it has premiums associated? So someone who gets ill a lot would have to pay more? Otherwise surely it's not insurance as such, and actually more similar to the UK tax based contributions?

Londonlottie - the legally required medical insurance - is it all different private insurance companies? Or is there just the one? or is it paid to the Govt? (sorry if you've answered this before)
If all different private insurance companies, is there open market competition between them or do they all have to offer the same provision for the same money?

Other medical systems are not immmune to individual error. Or problems caused by systems/bureaucracy. You will still have people mis-diagnosed and
people who can't access the best treatment. In the US people pay $$$ for insurance (those who can afford to or have jobs that provise it) and are still faced with huge excess payments of thousands of dollars and charges for hospital bills. And the insurance companies can specify which treatments/drugs they will cover. Many countries have a system where there is an insurance based state system that covers basic care and you pay 'top up' payments when you see a doctor etc. Or where there is free care but the majority of the population also have private cover as the the state system is very basic. We have free care provided to a high standard (except prescription charges in England and things like home care). You are not punished for being ill. You don't pay for staying in a hospital. You don't pay the retail cost of the drugs you might need.

It is an amazing system. If we want it to perform better we should contribute a higher % of our incomes towards it.

God aliceliddell I am so with you on that.

Alice, yep. I heard that many of the insurance companies have had the forms all ready for whenever Gordon Brown's govt demolished the NHS - they've had them on standby for quite some time now! (Got told by someone who worked in insurance so presumably he knows of what he speaks).

Bemybebe - have PMd you.

Spot on Alice.

The most glaringly obvious example of what would happen if we went down the insurance route in this counrtry is dentistry.

Access to it is terrible, many people (me included) put off going because of the cost. Waiting times are huge.

Imagine if your GP was like that.

empusa I did not make it clear, sorry. The purpose of this was to show to you and others who think NHS is fantastic and nothing needs to be looked at what other national health systems (Dutch in this case) provide to the population at similar costs. Why people do not want to know that? This is one of the services that does not exist even in private format here.

"The maternity care, kraamzorg, in the Netherlands is totally unique. No other country in the world has this kind of maternity care, where a professional maternity nurse looks after a mother and her new born baby during the first days after birth. The nurse will show you how to care for your newborn baby, eg how to breastfeed properly, and how to bathe him.

The nurse will look after older children and make sure that meals are prepared, take care of laundry and light household cleaning. If you have visitors she will help arrange a time which doesn't interrupt with your own or baby's rest, she will prepare refreshments or even politely turn guests away if you're feeling too tired ! If you have a home birth she will also be there after the birth to help clean up. Usually she will be there to help you 3-6 hours per day.

You are entitled to maternity care during the first 8 days after the birth of your baby. After that period you should be able to look after your baby yourself. 'Kraamzorg' is not to be confused with 'thuiszorg' (meaning 'home care'), which are local organisations providing professional care in your home. The thuiszorg shops are the place to go for some things you may need to hire, eg breast pump (industrial strength, really makes you feel like a diary cow), special stilts to raise the height of your bed (required for home birth), etc.

While the maternity nurse is looking after you she will keep a special diary for you called a kraamdossier to make notes about you and your baby's health and progress. This book is used for reference by your doctor, district midwife, consultatieburo etc. When the nurse is due to leave she will inform the district nurse at the consultatieburo, who will then be responsible for giving you help, support and guidance in looking after your baby." (www.passionateparenting.nl/pregnancy-and-birth/kraamzorg.php)

It's already happening. The NHS is being dismantled.

But that's ok, as it will make it easier for the rich to go private and have nice carpets and food.

but stuck we don't have insurance based dentistry in the UK it's NHS!!

dentistry is mostly private, even NHS dentistry is paid for, ~80% of private costs, isn't it, with caps on expensive work (no pun intended). not insurance based, no - but not free either (unless under 18 or pregnant)

Stuck thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread.

We do. NHS dentists are often hard to find and expensive for many people.

You have to pay £17 for the initial consultation, then a further fee (around £45 I think) for further treatment and this does not include the cost of time of work.

So many people, not surprisingly have to rely in insurance. Those who cannot afford either the insurance or the NHS fees end up waiting until they are in physical pain and going to a dental school to be treated by students.

You may have guessed that I'm mainly talking about the working poor here.

It's not the NHS. A tiny minority of things are covered by the NHS dental contracts. The majority is private now. Thousands of people don't have a dentist anymore because the new contract led to many dentists not taking on NHS patients or vastly limiting the numbers. And you pay, even if you can get taken on as an NHS patient.

x-posts

but it's because dentists wont work for the NHS(or limit their NHS work) because they can make more money not doing so surely?

surely you're going against your own argument here?
NHS dentistry has failed yes?

stuck I'm guessing you're limiting yourself to working poor who live reasonably near dental schools

2006

It's because the contracts have been changed over time to make it unprofitable for dentists to take on NHS work. 'Private' dentistry used to be very much the exception. Now it's the norm. Or more to the point, 1000s of people now don't have access to regular check ups etc and the contracts actually encourage an approach of wait until it's painful and hace it pulled.

which is exactly what I said puffin
(I havn't read your link)

To be fair, London, if people had paid a bit more attention to what having shareholders would mean to privatised utility and transport companies, they wouldn't have been so surprised that the prices skyrocketed while the services (in general) deteriorated. No reason to imagine it would be any different with the health system.

Holidaysoon;

NHS dentistry has failed in that it has been made very difficult for many, many people to access. It is not the actual dentistry is bad so much as many can't bloody get at it.

Yes, that's a good point about those who live reasonably near dental schools. I dread to think how people manage who don't live near them.

yes I think insurance based is not like car insurance with increasing premiums is it?
although I have heard it can be hard to get insurance for some things?

No. The working not overly wealthy I'd say. You can access free emergency care from (some?) dentists that do NHS work, even if you can't get on their list (books closed to new NHS patients.) So you can't go and get a check up or cleaning, but if you're in pain you can go and get the tooth filled or pulled!dentist.

random dentist