If your child did this, how would you feel?

[knittedbreast]

lately I have had this awful sensation i might have been doing it all wrong or reading it all wrong.

if when you try and speak to your 5.5 yrs old son and he just smirks or starts laughing at you, how would you feel? would you ignore it and put it down to childishness or a lack of respect that needs to be dealt with?

Tak

my 6 year old has started doing the smirking/laughing thing when told off so I think it is a bit of an age thing. I do come down really hard on him for it.

He's also the master of distraction and "I just need to tell you something"

yes, to MmeLindor's last sentence - positive rather than negative suggestions are a winner too (I'm a teacher and always use this when I'm not at the end of my tether at the end of a long day at the end of a long term)

yes i do listen but then the elaborate story continues.

if i dont and i stop and say we are not talking about lava and flies you have been unkind to your sister and need to apologise i get the "you never listeeeen," fake crying hysterics.

if i console him he starts smirking, makes me very cross inside

long enough for register to take place? we are not talking hours. he can spend hours on soemthing he loves but if he dousnt want to he wont and thats the issue.

thing is at school, they cant just start doing things he loves so he complies, i and they need to know that if hes told to do soemthing that he does it.

It doesn't help either when other people's children seem so well behaved, do what they're told etc. I know a lot of these parents put this down to their successful parenting skills etc (even to the point of smugness which can drive you to distraction) Sometimes it's not until they have another more difficult child that they realise that yes I'm sure effective parenting plays a huge part a lot of it is down to the temperament, attitude and personality of the individual child. Some children are a lot more difficult than others and I would have thought a decent school would have been involved in discussions about various techniques that could be used to help him improve his behaviour not expecting you to miraculously provide them with a more compliant child (or did I get that bit wrong) Children are people, all people are different and how you manage them varies enormously depending on the individual. Not one size fits absoulutely everybody. I struggle with my son. I must say as he has aged (now 8) he has become easy to reason with, control (if needs be) persuade him to do stuff etc. It's our job, I think, as parents to help our little ones learn to cope with their life ahead of them but how you do that depends soooo much on your little chap. Remember it's the rebels and the none conformers that change the world, not the sheep.

thank you ms pontypine and from a woman with so many peg children i really value your advice!!
i think you might be right, but im very worried that this refusal to do anything will continue, if i cant control him at 5 what chance do i have at 15? i dont want him to screw up because "he just dousnt want to do it".

the school is very good, but their suggestion was the mat and taking him outside until he would do it, he got a bit better but not much and they have said in yr 1 none of the above will be possible. the new teacher is alot more traditional as before he and the rest of the class were pretty mothered by the teachers.

if he starts falling behind, and digs his heels in he just keep slipping and i just want to help him relaise that there are wonderful things out there but you must read and you must practise your writing as a basis before you can do the rest.

i just feel really helpless

Try the book 'how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk' from amazon

try whacking him with it would be more effective I would wager :)

Pick your battles. If it's worth telling them off, tell them off properly. No wishy washy 'don't hit your sister' in a sing song voice. Don't be afraid to assert yourself properly, they will still love you after. Say it like you mean it, and look like you mean it.

Imagine someone was trying it on with you when you were ordering drinks at a bar. You try ignoring them, say you're not interested and they start trying to touch you. You say 'get your %^*+# hands off me!' now that's the tone and attitude you need (without the swearing obviously).

It sounds cruel, but if you're telling them off for a good reason (hurting other people, damaging things on purpose, doing something dangerous) and it should always be for a good reason, then it's teaching them seriously what's right and wrong. Which is an important part of parenting.

Once you've got their attention with the stern, serious voice and 'the look' then you can explain why it's so important not to hit people, trash property, play with electricity, or whatever. If they understand that you only tell them off when it really matters they will take you seriously. No smirking.

If they experience a litany half hearted 'pull up your trousers, don't pick your nose, put that toy away, hurry up, you never eat your peas...' they tend to not realise that 'don't hit your sister' is more important unless the voice and tone are obviously different.

What you are looking for is respect, and that they respect others and other people's property.

I think most young children want to please their parents/adults, but when a child starts to not want to please their parents ie not comply, it quickly becomes a vicious circle.

The more they dont comply, the harder you come down on them, the more they dont want to please you. The 'naughtier' the child becomes, the more it feels like you do nothing but tell them off. Very negative feelings involved for all concerned.

Have you tried positive rewards, for postive behaviour?

Can I just ask why when you try to tell him off and he trys to distract you and then crys when he fails do you comfort him? Would it not be better to tell him to stop crying, and carry on with the punishment for being mean to his sister. He seems to turn it around so he is the victim! It sounds like he can guilt you as he knows you do not like to see him upset.

The other thing is to show that the behaviour is unacceptable in the family. That way if people at school do it, it makes no difference. So eg spitting, 'mummy doesn't do it , daddy doesn't do it, dc1 doesn't do it, and so on' . Or 'have you ever seen mummy carving up the table, or daddy....etc, well you don't do it either'.

They have to know that you love them, and love them enough to be firm with them about certain things that matter.

hmm, its a touch one as some little lads do this, but think some tough love needed, I'd go apeshit knwoing me. dont beat yourself up though

i love you name, dont know why.....

My son is 7yo and does the ignoring, the huffing, the "I am not listening" and "I am hungry/thirsty/need to tell you something" but I am quite strict with him and don't let him do it. Erm... sounds just like my DS.

knittedbreast is he any different to he's always been or is it because it's the end of the holidays and after 6 weeks of it it seems worse? I ask genuinely because my DS has never really 'got' why he has to do something he doesn't want to, he will almost simply pretend the demand isn't occuring. Having had enough by week 3! I sat him down gave the whole 'your very clever, you know how to behave well etc' chat and told him from then on it was 5 minutes warning, 2 minute, then TIME and it would happen.

For example:

DS knows we are going to supermarket. DS gets told we leave in 5 minutes. (so if he still hasn't got dressed/ put shos on as asked, or need drink etc NOW is the time to do it).

DS gets told 2 minutes then we go.

DS gets told we are going now (he will have watched me getting ready whilst following me around informing me of lot's or irrelevant info) and I will simply leave.

After ASDA in boxers, t shirt and no shoes, local shop with no jumper (when cold) etc he has finally bucked up his ideas.

It sounds mean/ cruel and it's very hard to explain here but I think he is a bit like your DS. As I said if he doesn't want to do something he doesn't see the importance of it. My DS is never rude but more disengaged iyswim? Oh and it's blardy infuriating.

Can't believe you took him to ASDA with no shoes!and I I thought I was tough....

he can guilt me pretty easily, i feel awful because i thought i was going to loose him twice ( i wasnt, i just thought so,)

i dont comfort him when he does that, but equally i feel torn between letting him finish becasue i want him to know that he and his words are important.

claw, i tried that but he does it so often that the treat never appears. i have so many lovely things, like if you do x and y and z we will go and do this together. but if he is naughty and i remind him of the deal he just says he dousnt want the treat anyway and then i have nothing to take away and a reluctant child.

he says he dousnt like my cross face, so when im angry he wont look at me.

its literally like hes picking and choosing what aspects of life he wants to go along with. he wont listen to my mum either, dosunt want to do anything that incldes effort. makes me so sad inside that i just dont know what to do.

the thing about it being vicous circle is right, it just escalates and then every day is shit, and i dont want to reward him but equally i have another child that deseervces to go the park etc, but what do you do when theres two and ones too young to stay on their own?

youarekidding thank you for the hand holding, i just want to scream some times.

youarekidding and originalposter i htink we share the same child.

porcamiseria if the name was aimed at me, thank you :)

*Kayano Thu 01-Sep-11 13:30:09
How about a totally different
Tactic then? He knows if he doesn't
Do something you will fight with him, he knows if he smirks it gets your back up?

Can you act indifferently when he does this for a few days?

Like if he says 'no I won't read!' instead of fightig him just shrug and say 'whatever' and walk off to do your own thing?

If he 'needs to tell you something urgently' you can say 'im not bothered til you do x' and again walk away

By going and panderig to him, and listening to his unrelated
Gossip could that not br making the problem worse?

Might be with a go?*

YES YES YES, this was better put than I was trying to say I do. The whole indifference, I have found that IF DS gets ready to go out properly and when told when we get to the car I say 'tell me again about X now I can listen properly' and give a really OTT fake interest in the 'thing' DS wants to tell me. (usually about volcanoes, hurricaines or trains!)

I am hoping it models to him there's a time and a place to have conversation and a time to do what needs doing. We are getting there.

However the other day at dentist, I had RCT I had to take DS, he had his DS and I explained he'd have to play with it and no-one (especially mummy!) could/would talk to him. He actually talked for 25 minutes, no-one listened or responded and he went on and on and on - oblivious. He does this A LOT.

Sorry for epic posts

Anyhoo promised I'd take DS on his bike for a bit - going to give the 5 minute warning now - bet he only needs 5 seconds - as he wants to go.

I'll be back soon with

I had it with one of mine and a little lecture on how i am not amused, how disrespectful they are being and how i won't stand for it soon stopped my DD

i have to go and get him from his friends now, so il be back on while im, ahem working.

thanks for all your advice, see you later.

nice mummy, pick my battles and use appropriate cross voice for valid naughtyness.

thanks you :)

Knitted im not talking about treats so much, im talking more about praising good behaviour. We tend to 'expect' good behaviour and not comment on it and only comment on the bad behaviour. Does that make sense?

For example when he is playing nicely with his sister, comment about how well they are playing together and what you like about it. Rather than just the telling off when he doesnt.

Treats as positive rewards are good, as long as you dont try to focus on too many behaviours all at once and set yourself up for a fail. Have you tried focussing on just one behaviour at a time? The one that really drives you mad, the smirking perhaps.

Obviously you still have to have negative consequences for bad behaviour.

Keep your consequences, to things that dont involve the two of them having to suffer. So NOT going to the park isnt a consequence, something that will only affect him is, if you see what i mean.

Has anyone ever smirked or laughed at innapropriate times knowing full well you shouldn't. like for example someone is blaming you for something awful and when you are stating your innocence you have this smirk/laugh going on which makes you look really guilty but you are not.

Could be the same thing so think twice about whether it is intentional or not lol

Some of this is naggingly familiar with my DS (8)

At school, and church, and at family/friends, he's all sweetness and light. But as soon as we come home and he has to tidy his room, or read a book instead of play a computer game, or clean his gerbils out, it's like I've asked the world from him!

DH and I often experience shocking back-chat from him; he'll nit-pick about how he didn't win such-and-such a game, how Dad cheated, how the dogs put him off, how he needs "me time" away from DD (WTF?! He's obsessed with her! But they do share a room, so play-space is limited). DH/I try to nip it in the bud, but how dare we?? :o

Then it starts... the boo-hooing, and the "you're not listening to me" followed by further howls. Then stomps into bedroom, and is alternating theatrical boo-hooing with long-winded speeches to his bedroom wall about how DH and I are terribly mean to him, nicely rounded off with the odd fit of coughing.

Note: he's in perfect health, there is no cough to be found when he's making DD laugh, charging round the house at top speed, bouncing off the walls etc

DH and I are tearing our hair out, as we want to do so much with him (music lessons, swimming lessons, football clubs), but are unsure of how to proceed with this behavior.

No smirking (yet!) though.