want to change legal guardians for DDs

[whoneedssleepanyway]

My BIL and his wife are named guardians for our DDs in our will.

I wasn't totally sure but DH was fairly insistent saying neither of my siblings were suitable on basis they weren't married to their respective partners at the time and lived too far from both our parents. I ended up agreeing just to get will done.

My relationship with BIL's wife is pretty strained. She has one DS roughly same age as DD2, he has SNs as a result of problematic delivery. All signs are no mental disability but some physical issues but that said he is doing amazingly and is a v active toddler. She has admitted to me once jealousy of our situation (2 healthy DDs). She is also v open that it is unlikely she will have more children and doesn't know how people cope with two.

I really want to change guardians in the will to my brother. Both my siblings are now married and settled with a child of their own. I just don't feel BIL and his wife are the best people (partly down to my personal issues with her). I have no idea how to convince DH I know he will disagree and it could cause a big row but I feel very strongly about this.

Any advice?

You really need to talk to your DH-it has to be joint. (I would feel like you)

I was in a similar position although we had already decided that BIL and SIL were out of the picture. Originally we chose my cousin and a friend and as time went on their lives changes and it became clear they wouldn't want to/couldn't take care of DCs. So we changed our wills last year and chose another couple who we feel 100% about - I couldn't cope thinking DCs wouldn't be going to the best possible carers if the worst should happen.

Being a Guardian isn't a "favour" or an honour you bestow on people who are in some way deserving, or who need to be acknowledged in some way, you don't do it to avoid a family row - its not like choosing godparents. My Mum died when I was 13 so I know that life doesn't always go how you plan and knowing what that loss felt like, I felt DCs would need 100% love and attention if their world was changed for the worse. Hope that makes sense. And of course, I hope it never happens.

callisto can I clarify I have not said I dislike my BIL's wife, my personal issues I make reference to are the lack of close relationship and friendship between us since she had DS, she has avoided me and has on occasions made me feel like she dislikes me.

Those of you who think my reasons are poor can I genuinely ask did emotions not come into your decision at all, did you look at things with total impartiality. I would find this difficult on something that is very much a personal and emotional decision.

The thing is your relationship with her has not much to do with the reasons you gave in your OP - your nephew having an SN probably has a lot to do with how she is being with you, but isn't anything to do with being a guardian for your DDs, neither does her not wanting any more children.

Not being that close to her is a fair enough reason to change it IMO, providing you have someone else on mind that you are closer to and could provide a stable caring home for your DDs.

CHANGE IT.

Simply because you are not happy with it.

You need the person named to be someone you trust, and - yes - someone you love. And someone you feel absolutely sure who will love your DDs should the worst happen.

You don't have to give sensible logical reasons why you feel or don't feel this about anyone.

It is your prerogative to not feel close to your SIL or not feel that she is your 'type' of person. That is FINE. It doesn't mean that you don't respect her mothering or dislike her! It IS a good enough reason for her and your BIL to not be the people you would be most happy with as guardians.

As an aside however, I do think that her situation, as mother to a SN child, is something that you are right to consider. I would. She has a lot on her plate. I don't understand why anyone would interpret your taking this into account as some sort of judgement on her!

This sounds more like a tug of war between you and your DH to be honest. He wants 'his' side to be the guardians. If you aren't happy with this, it needs to be discussed. That's not to say that your siblings would be a better choice - but simply that you have every right to not agree to your SIL and BIL as guardians and to remove them. They don't have to stay as the default while you discuss it - remove them, make it clear that you aren't happy and it is NOT a situation that can remain. Then you start talking sensibly about where to go from there.

In reply to your last post - yes it is one of the most emotional decisions of all to make.

OP when you use the term 'legal guardians', do you mean who the children will live with?

Surely it should be who wants your children, loves them unconditionally, can cope with them and who you are close with, so that they bring them up as you would want?

Whoever you name will still be investigated by SS and decisions based on that, they will look to place them withinh your family, but of course this may never be needed.

tabulahrasa I don't entirely follow your post about my relationship with her not being much to do with the reasons in my OP.

My reasons for wanting to change are:

1. I am not close to her in fact things have been very difficult with her
2. She has been open about not wanting more children and how she would cope with more

I am very aware that her issues with me have arisen out of the situation with her DS and understand that but am sad about it as had been hoping we would have a close relationship. I would in no way discount someone as a potential guardian just because they had a SN child.

I fully appreciate that the choice has to be someone my DDs are close to and would be a good mother to them, but in an ideal world I would like that to be someone who I have had a close relationship with too and who would therefore know and understand me and how I wanted to bring my DDs up and would hopefully be a replacement for me. I just don't feel BIL's wife is that person.

There are drawbacks with all possibilities TBH, both my siblings live geographically further away from both grandparents that BIL and his wife.

Shoutyhamster I think you have hit the nail on the head in many ways, if the DDs were to go to DH's family I am pretty certain my family would end up with limited involvement in the DDs upbringing whereas I know for a fact that my family would actively involve them.

This is such a tough one, I wish I hadn't been such a pushover when we sorted this before but I was pregnant with DD2 and just wanted to get the wills sorted so let myself be bulldozed guided by DH

Birdsgottafly yes mean who they will live with. My understanding was that if you don't name a legal guardian in your will they become a ward of court (although hopefully would be placed within the family in the meantime) and a legal guardian appointed.

OP reading your post 10.48, you need to change it. It doesn't have to be an arguement with your DH, you both need to realise that if your SIL comes across to the SW that she cannot cope, the DD's will be in 'limbo' wghilst decisions are made.

This may never be needed so don't fall out over it, as the children get older, changes will have to be made. Once they are 10 their veiws will be taken into account and SS will look to keep them together.

OP- they will be under the care of the L.A in legal terms, anyway. I am taking that you are in the UK.

Then they will look to pernamently place them within the family, this will be monitiored and reviewed. If they are close to the age of 12, then the decision will be kept open for review, as the eldest DD can decide where she wants to live.

There isn't 'ward of court' as there once was, with the changes in law about PR. The L.A may deem in necessary to keep PR but place them with SIL.

OP does your family want them, because say you are both injured and in hospital, who will care for them?

They will need to still attend the same school.

It is more common to die in car accidents. I have handeled the senario where one parent has died and the other is unconscious in hospital. The L.A look to place the DC's with who can keep life stable whilst the other parent recovers (if they do), then they look for permanent placement.

Thanks Birds that is all v useful. We are in the UK.

I need to find the right time to talk to DH about this seriously. The problem is that he is very much of the "this is never going to happen" view so saw the guardianship thing as a formality. I know it is highly unlikely that we will both die but these things do happen and we both know of one family we are close to where they ended up adopting the niece and nephew as her DSis and BIL both died in close succession.

I am a worrier...so do tend to focus more on these things than DH as liked to plan for all eventualities.

You need to be discussing this with family members, it doesn't have to be a big discussion, but just make them aware that you are making this living will and what it contains.

It would be unfair of him to want this all his own way, as your DD's age, they should have a say in the matter.

At 14 a child can live with who they choose to.

I have recently also handled a situation were the RP made a living will saying they wanted the GP to have the DC's.
The L.A made the decision that the NR parent was to be given PR and residency, access was formally put in place for the GP, as of course the battle for the DC's caused them all to fall out.

It was a mess for quite a while, the L.A is the 'legal guardian' and take the DC's clothes shopping etc as benefits cannot be awarded in that situation (if the family is struggling).

I wasn't assuming that your nephew was influencing your decision - but you don't say in your OP, we're not that close, lol

you mention you have issues with her, but not what, so it's mostly just about your nephew and how your sil isnt planning more children - maybe that's not how you wrote it, but that's how it reads as to me

Having read your other posts I was saying that no it's not unreasonable to want legal guardians that you have a better relationship with regardless of your nephew or your SILs plans, not being close to her would be enough of a reason for me.

As ellisbell said earlier, if you died "together", the youngest is deemed to have died second and their will prevails, and there is nothing at all to stop OP changing her will without her dp changing his. In the extremely unlikely even t of their both dying before the youngest is 18, and her being the second to die within that period, her appointment will hold. If the other way around, then his appointment will hold, but if the child is 14 they are plenty old enough for their wishes and feelings to be held into account in any event.

I'm a will writer and this is the thing which most people find the most difficult to decide.

My view is that, assuming that you have no reason to believe that you are going to pop off before the children are 18, ie not terminally ill, that you shouldn't let uncertainty over guardianship put you off getting on with making your will. Far more problems are caused by having no will at all than one in which you're not 100% happy about guardianship, particularly for unmarried couples who often receive nothing at all when their partner dies - that causes far more difficulties to the family.

You should also remember that wills are not written in concrete. You may appoint a guardian when your child is a baby who seems like a perfect choice (thinking particularly grandparents/aunts & uncles) who would be totally unsuitable if you were to die when the child is 16, doing GCSEs hundreds of miles away from their relatives, when it would be better to stay with a school friend's family for that last couple of years than have all the upheaval.

Think of reviewing guardianship appointments at least every 5 years or so.

btw I have a paid for advert over on Classified Small Businesses if anyone's interested.

Have you ever discussed this question with the various potential guardians? Admittedly have only skimmed this thread (sorry) but seems a bit odd to me that no-one's mentioning the guardians themselves, who would need to be happy with the arrangement and able to commit themselves to your children. If your SIL has a lot to deal with already, would she actually be happy/able to look after yours as well?

Thanks mumblechum and ellisgirl. I wouldn't feel comfortable changing my will without DH's knowledge though, so I think this has to be a joint decision.

Splinters, yes BIL and his wife were aware of the will at the time it was made but that was several years ago pre the birth of DD2 etc, so the issues I mention (deterioration of our relationship etc) have all happened since that time.

*deterioration of our relationship - I mean between BIL's wife and I.

also when I say aware I mean that we discussed it with them and they agreed at the time.

"2) She has been open about not wanting more children and how she would cope with more"

And this is the niggle isnt it?

And this is also the angle you should approach it from. Tell your dh that you are concerned that the reason your SIL has been saying this, could be to hint that she is no longer comfortable about being the legal guardian to your two children, which is why you want to open up the discussion again. I think you need to let your dh know your thoughts, without elaborating about you getting on with her or not, as this is neither here nor there actually. In the course of the discussions, you may suggest your own family, and perhaps approach them and speak to them all, including your inlaws. I think you need to be honest, and ask for them to be honest too. You dont want to burden sil and bil with your two, if they already feel a burden.

when the children were younger and we needed guardians we found that anyone we would consider was a bit nervous about the idea. If they aren't they probably don't understand what they would be taking on . So you need to separate sensible concern from total fright.

We made a point of telling people what financial arrangements we had made so they knew that their own children would not suffer financially. Our wills provided, for example, that the "mother" could be paid a wage if staying home to look after our children. We didn't want to pitch that so high that it would be the motivation to take them on but high enough to provide some incentive.

It does make sense to review your guardians as your children grow anyway, you can raise it with your husband in that context.

Speak to DH, it should be a joint decision. But also write in your own will, who you want to look after them, and write your reasons why SIL should not have them. At te end of the day I assume social services would have the final say rather than treating the Dcs like possessions, so they will read both your wills and reasons and then make a decision. At the end of the day if you have a bad feeling about her having them, then you should not appoint her as guardian.

You can put what you like in YOUR will.