...to think that 4 year old dd should have sussed toilet training by now?

[Groveregg]

I have so had enough today; we took nappies off dd a year ago at the beginning of August; she had a month at Christmas where she was perfect and then it all went backwards after a dose of flu, and ever since apart from the odd day, the only times when she is consistently good at keeping her pants clean and dry is when we are on holiday. I am having a bad couple of days as we are back from a two week holiday and she is suddenly not going to the toilet at all and screaming and fighting me if I try to suggest it. 4 poos in pants today and I've lost my temper twice badly. It has been a constant battle of wills all year and I feel like jacking it all in. Maybe she should start school next week in nappies...

And yes we have done reward charts and treats before some bright spark suggests it

Your DD definately won't be the only child in her class with toilet trouble that's for sure! I just can't see what's to be done about it really. The bigger you make it, the bigger it will become.

Carry on with your incentives and best of luck remaining calm when she has an accident.

Hope today went OK. I think you need to go easy on yourself here, its easy for everyone to pile in with advice (myself included) but you know your daughter best and I am certain you are doing what seems right.

If she's not quite on board with it all, it honestly won't be the end of the world if you pop her in a pull up for school. You won't be the first nor the last, one relative of mine did certainly this with her DS. If they want them to start school at 4 (which I think is too early anyway) then they can't or (and I'm sure teachers on the board will confirm) won't expect them all to be perfectly managing their toileting.

My friend had this difficulty with her DS when he was about 3 years old. He used to refuse to use the loo for poos and would eventually soil himself.

When she was in the house and she could tell he needed to go but was holding it in, she would take off his trousers and his underpants. She realsied it was one thing doing it in his pants he wouldn't actually shit the floor. So he used to go to his room and try and put more pants on but my friend took them off again. In the end he had to go. It was in winter too so she kept the house extra warm for him.

Try that: take her pants off in the house. Maybe she wont poo the floor and relasie she'll have to go. But it's worth a try.

Thanks to everyone for their advice again. Things are feeling a bit better after a couple of big bribes yesterday and today to make her do poos (one great big one just 20 minutes before she went to school this afternoon so I can guarantee no embarrassment there!, and which also dissipated any fears I had of anything physical). She isn't very happy about going to the toilet but I feel we can work on that. More than anything I am really relieved that she was really positive about school, saying on the way that she is going to love it and telling me to go when we got to class! So any worries that might have sparked this all off will hopefully dissipate. And it's nice to have some one to one time with her in the mornings now her big brother is back to school full time; I think that will help. Oh and I didn't mention that I realised yesterday that I'd had PMT all week which made me angrier and more stressy than I needed to be.

The dreaded PMT! You do sound better Greoveregg.

Ive been very lucky with toilet trainning.

But I have noticed that if we are indoors for afew days he gets so ingrossed in his toys he forgets to go to the toilet. I make him put his wet clothes into the washing machine and make him clear it off the toilet seat. Its only wee wee but he hates doing it and it helps him to think about it. Dont give too much attention to it otherwise they will play on it.

i was getting a bit sick of constant fuss and cajoling and bribing of my dd (4 next month) so i changed tack and told her that if she pooed in her knickers once more she would go to nursey in nappies. the shame concentrated her mind wonderfully and no more pooey knickers since. we had spent months previously on different treats, stickers and they just weren't working.